sych
"Living for the fantasy" -NIGHTS INTO DREAMS- The Classic Saturn Gem!!!
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Post by sych on Sept 23, 2018 11:03:57 GMT
Micro Machines should have been continued as well as Ecco the Dolphin and Skitchin'
Would loved to have seen those 3 games on the Saturn.
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Post by The Elite MYT on Sept 23, 2018 11:25:09 GMT
Angry because I want it on my Saturn, and it was planned to come out with extras too. I blame Bernie. I could get on my N64, but I think playing Resi on an N64 controller would just feel off.
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Post by darkman01 on Sept 23, 2018 13:13:52 GMT
That's true, although I would have preferred if they did a Konami (with SOTN) and just pushed it out of the door. I would have accepted a flawed version! I think even a Japanese version would also have sufficed! As far as I know, Saturn RE2 was being worked on by NexTech , who had worked on porting several games to the Saturn (like Toshinden) , including the first Resident Evil. At some point during development , they were told to quit working on it and were instead assigned to coding a brand new RE game for the upcoming Dreamcast, which of course ended up as Code Veronica . I would have to imagine that the cancellation had very much to do with RE2 being scrapped and restarted halfway through , meaning a Saturn version wouldn't have hit the market until 1999. Of course, Capcom did release SFZ3 in 1999 , but I suspect that might have been an easier port to do (alot of things could be taken from earlier ports).
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Post by barryburton on Sept 23, 2018 14:11:12 GMT
Angry because I want it on my Saturn, and it was planned to come out with extras too. I blame Bernie. I could get on my N64, but I think playing Resi on an N64 controller would just feel off. Fair enough. I was certainly disappointed by it back in '98. Ended up pestering my Dad into getting me a Playstation in the end.
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Post by davyk on Sept 23, 2018 20:45:23 GMT
Golden Axe is a great call.
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Post by Tongara on Sept 23, 2018 22:36:08 GMT
Resident Evil 2 should have appeared in the saturn. The fact that it didnt makes me a little angry inside. Why angry ? It's available on about 5 other platforms. Never releasing Panzer Dragoon Saga anywhere else, now that's a reason to be annoyed. I am not annoyed that PDS was not released elsewhere. Doesn't bother me one bit. Sonic R 2 is what the world needs~
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martiniii
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Post by martiniii on Sept 26, 2018 1:17:39 GMT
Yep. Can't believe it took this many posts for someone to mention this one. The obvious answer. The planned 3D accelerator cartridge would of course have been something to see, but even without it this would have been a cool game to have on the Saturn. Yu Suzuki and co. pushing the system to its limits, and giving one of the Saturn's defining series a climactic send-off release. It would have been good if Criticom 2 came out for Saturn as originally planned, instead of being ported to the Nintendo 64 and renamed Dark Rift. Just for the lolz of one of the Saturn's most critically panned games getting a sequel. The Saturn could have used Girls in Motion Vol. 3, since FMV puzzlers are so few in number, and take so little time to complete. This series stopped pretty early in the Saturn's lifespan, so I don't see why we didn't get another installment, or even two of them. I guess sales must have been disappointing. And, of course... I would have been very happy to see Lunar Eclipse for the Saturn.
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Post by Anthaemia. on Sept 27, 2018 0:29:37 GMT
"This ol' chestnut, huh?"
Just like the 32-bit version of what later became Shenmue, AM2 was busy converting Virtua Fighter 3 to Saturn* without any knowledge of the so-called Eclipse accelerator cartridge, which had been conceived within Sega of America (and was already cancelled by mid 1997, when the division's R&D team had already moved its focus to the similarly ill-fated Black Belt project). Whatever form Saturn VF3 would have ultimately taken, you can rest assured that it was running on 100% vanilla hardware.
*Following months of technical research, actual development took place between November '96 and late August '98, with the cancellation officially documented as happening in mid-September. Slightly earlier, work on the retroactively titled Shenmue Saturn Version began at the beginning of '96, continuing up through to the middle of '97, when AM2 decided on a platform change to what was then still known internally as Guppy and later Katana.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I suddenly have the urge to see whether it's possible to order some chestnut and/or vanilla tea anywhere...
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martiniii
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Post by martiniii on Sept 27, 2018 3:23:19 GMT
Hmmm... But folks from Core Design claimed that Sega showed them an early build of Saturn Virtua Fighter 3 running with the 3D accelerator cartridge, which was what presumably led to their decision to have the (also cancelled) Saturn version of Tomb Raider II use the cartridge... Did Sega pull some technological sleight of hand on them?
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Post by Anthaemia. on Sept 27, 2018 21:26:44 GMT
What members of Core Design claimed to have seen of Saturn Virtua Fighter 3 is unlikely to have been running on the Eclipse upgrade because this was never completed, though it was probably developed by AM2... According to other sources from within Sega Europe who saw the same "VF3" build, this was a simple character movement tech demo featuring Aoi practicing moves over a plain background (similar to the more basic samples showcasing Akira that were included with some revisions of the Sega Graphics Library toolkit). My understanding is that lead programmer and conversion director Keiji Okayasu created this at some point in mid-to-late 1996 as part of research into whether the Saturn could even handle such a demanding game, with Yu Suzuki announcing that production would commence with immediate effect at the November '96 press conference where he also revealed Fighters Megamix.
According to a former Sega of America insider who I've spoken to, a much later version of Saturn VF3 was seen in the form of a rolling demo, with others describing this as actually being a VHS tape prepared by AM2 for internal use. Previously, a cassette of the earliest Saturn software had found its way into the hands of the UK's Official Sega Magazine, which printed various screenshots of a SGI workstation target sequence for what later became Panzer Dragoon, then still known by its working title of 3D Shooting Game. So much we know about has yet to see the light of day, and I very much doubt that Core had access to anything like final Eclipse hardware. At the very least, they were able to begin converting Tomb Raider II using a PC-based approximation with the same 3dfx chipset, though I'm not convinced such work could have lasted for long, as Sony was quick to buy console exclusivity to the franchise, which lasted until after the Dreamcast's launch. Whether the end result justified the hype or not, I can still remember the fanfare when Tomb Raider: The Last Revelation was announced for Sega's next generation system.
P.S. Since we're on the subject of Core Design, was there ever any proof that Core had been responsible for the ill-fated Dreamcast conversion of SCUD Race? If anything, this would have been a continuation of the sample files seen in early "Katana" development kits, which I'm fairly sure originated from Sega of Japan's own in-house hardware division.
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martiniii
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Post by martiniii on Oct 2, 2018 17:06:36 GMT
One little air bubble, though... Core said the Saturn VF3 they saw had two playable characters.
I agree that it seems unlikely that Tomb Raider II for Saturn got very far along at all. Core were showed off a beta of Saturn Ninja before they even said they had started on TR2. Also, around this time they were complaining that Sega hadn't let them see the technical specifications for the 3D accelerator cartridge yet. Assuming they were indeed going to use that cartridge for TR2, I can't imagine they could get much done without knowing what hardware limitations they were working with.
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Post by zyke on Oct 13, 2018 23:43:45 GMT
Guardian Heroes, Nights, Exhumed, Princess Crown...there are so many titles that actually deserved to be continued. Sigh.
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Post by Anthaemia. on Oct 14, 2018 1:00:45 GMT
One little air bubble, though... Core said the Saturn VF3 they saw had two playable characters. I agree that it seems unlikely that Tomb Raider II for Saturn got very far along at all. Core were showed off a beta of Saturn Ninja before they even said they had started on TR2. Also, around this time they were complaining that Sega hadn't let them see the technical specifications for the 3D accelerator cartridge yet. Assuming they were indeed going to use that cartridge for TR2, I can't imagine they could get much done without knowing what hardware limitations they were working with. Was there ever any confirmation about which two characters were in the tech demo that Core staff remembered playing? I've seen quite a few sources talk about a tech demo featuring Aoi (displaying various techniques over a solid blue background), but never anything interactive. Indeed, that particular demo was only ever seen on one of several VHS tapes doing the rounds within Sega's offices, while the aforementioned demos showcasing Akira were from long before even pre-production began on Saturn VF3. I don't recall the exact dates right now, though I'm fairly sure the Akira demos first appeared in magazines around late '95, when Tadahiro Kawamura of AM2 presented the earliest revision of SGL. As for Core having a performance target for the Eclipse cartridge, I remember quite a few magazines claiming the specifications would be comparable to the upcoming Black Belt system also being prepared by SOA. At the very least, it wouldn't surprise me if Core's programmers were told to expect the same 3dfx chipset in Eclipse as Black Belt, or perhaps a slightly less powerful variation. If my understanding is correct, the custom graphics processor that 3dfx created for Black Belt was an amalgam of the Voodoo 2 and Banshee, though I can't imagine this solution being cost effective for an upgrade like the Eclipse. Maybe it was aiming to more closely match the first generation of Voodoo card, only with the least possible amount of VRAM to keep the RRP down? What always stunned me about the collapse of the deal between 3dfx and SOA is just how close the former came to going under when this collaboration fell through. Despite all the critical and commercial success of the Voodoo range in particular, it seems that 3dfx was developing and churning out so many products that the company as a whole had been running on fumes. I've even seen claims that the money 3dfx received in compensation was the only thing stopping it from declaring bankruptcy at the end of the 1997-8 financial year, as it had already done most of the work necessary ahead of a planned Voodoo 3 launch in early '99! Finally for now, if my ever-reliable contact within Sega Europe is correct, the NDAs for all internally-developed Saturn games released in the US and Europe have now expired. Just a few months ago, we had an extensive interview with many of the key staff at Team Andromeda on the subject of how Panzer Dragoon Saga came to be, and I'm hoping that Yu Suzuki will finally stop being so vague about Saturn VF3 or the 32-bit "Shenmue" prototype. The evidence points to these definitely existing, yet he's typically dismissive of wanting to give them much of his time in retrospect. If he remains silent, we can safely assume it's because the failure of those projects to materialise really did hurt his feelings. I've been told that corporate opinion quickly changed against AM2 in general when the arcade version of VF3 failed to build on the series' established fanbase, with Shenmue II being the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. Once management saw that Shenmue wouldn't develop anything beyond a cult following, AM2 suddenly went from having an unprecedented degree of control and record-breaking budgets to being reined in. Soon, we'd have a flood of relatively conservative sequels including the likes of Virtua Fighter 4, Out Run 2 and Virtua Cop 3, with Yu himself never again sharing the pedestal of contemporaries such as Yuji Naka or Tetsuya Mizuguchi, at least not until he returned to the spotlight with Shenmue III. Now that I think about it, I'm amazed Yu stuck around within Sega for as long as he did... Who even remembers Sega Race TV, which stands as perhaps the only high profile game released between Shenmue II and III to bear his name in its credits?
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Post by Team Andromeda on Oct 14, 2018 11:02:10 GMT
I really liked BUG II and felt it could have been made into a great series, if SEGA allowed users to save and checkpoints. Deep Fear needed a sequel and could have been set out in space this time, but I guess it was too late for the Saturn.
SEGA really should have looked at NAMCO and how they made various sequels to RR and done the same with Sega Rally and that amazing game engine. Astal really should have a sequel with double the levels (its only issue). Exhumed II really should have happned and I would have just loved to have seen a Saturn Streets of Rage IV using the Saturn 2D chipset for monster size sprites and 3 player support.
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Post by Anthaemia. on Oct 14, 2018 13:15:39 GMT
According to vintage press releases, it seems as if SOA had very high hopes for BUG! as the company's new flagship series. Sales of the original game were so high that plans were announced not just for the eventual sequel, but a computer-animated kids TV show, which I've heard was quite far into production when the powers that be decided to pull the plug on this and another installment in the Saturn franchise that I once saw mentioned under the possible working title of FREE BUG! (due to its major plot element of the two previous auxiliary characters teaming up with a new third partner to help save the titular figure). My guess is that Bug Too! didn't perform as well as originally expected, or maybe Realtime Associates chose to move away from the Saturn, joining the majority of third party developers after mid-1997? Also, it probably didn't help that there were considerable problems behind the scenes at SOA by this point as well - Sega Technical Institute folded soon after the completion of Die Hard Arcade, while many of the remaining staff were quickly assigned to work on either localisations or the ill-fated Eclipse and Black Belt hardware projects, with only a few able to produce relatively basic tech demos when it came time to finally unveil the Dreamcast. This splitting of resources is why the Dreamcast launched with very few US-developed Sega titles in development beyond Geist Force, and even that wouldn't ultimately see the light of day. By contrast, the Saturn hit shelves with plenty of support from Sega's US division, including Black Fire, Ghen War, BUG! and Congo... Actually, maybe it's for the best that their mostly disappointing efforts didn't spill over to dilute the Dreamcast's even more crucial launch window?
As for Deep Fear, I really am surprised that became a "one and done" type game, especially when you consider that Capcom was doing everything in its power around the same time to rework Resident Evil 2 into the springboard for an entire franchise that endures to this day. I definitely agree that the next logical step for Deep Fear would have been to set a follow-up or even a prequel in space, but it seems as if Sega chose to focus on Blue Stinger as its major next generation survival horror showcase, later joined by the initially Dreamcast-exclusive Resident Evil: Code Veronica. Astal seems to have been quickly forgotten in the push to emphasise polygons over sprites, and we very nearly did get a Streets Of Rage 4, or at least that was until Core and Sega fell out because of the former wanting its product to appear on rival systems, leading to its eventual release as Fighting Force. Similarly, before Lobotomy Software folded, plans were underway for a sequel to Exhumed, while it's odd that you should mention Sega potentially taking a leaf from Namco's book, since Kenji Sasaki moved from working on the first Ridge Racer to being a major creative force on the team responsible for Sega Rally. Ironically, around the same time, Seiichi Ishii went the other way, recycling a lot of his unused character designs for Virtua Fighter in the Tekken series. Although the likes of Manx TT, Sega Touring Car and even Daytona USA Championship Circuit Edition are all very different from Sega Rally, I recall each of these being described by journalists as spiritual successors to Rally, or in the case of the latter, it was literally created on a heavily modified version of the Saturn version's engine.
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