mick_aka
Kickin' it lively!
"Mick is moderately adequate."
Joined: April 2007
Posts: 9,817
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XBL: mickloaf
PSN: mickloaf
Nintendo ID: segamick
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Post by mick_aka on Apr 25, 2019 15:47:45 GMT
What are your favourites?
Let me know 🙂
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Post by davyk on Apr 27, 2019 9:38:40 GMT
Layer section. Not strictly bullet hell though there are plenty of bullets Quite old school and very hard.
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Post by zyrobs on Apr 27, 2019 10:56:43 GMT
I don't know how you would even classify this. Something like Darius Gaiden or Layer Section would be considered bullet hell by more casual players, while hardcore ones would put the bar to Touhou and its ilk, or Dodonpachi at the minimum. Even the non-bullet-hell shmups like Cotton Boomerang or Soukyugurentai can end up having ludicrous amounts of bullets on screen to dodge, especially past the first level.
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mick_aka
Kickin' it lively!
"Mick is moderately adequate."
Joined: April 2007
Posts: 9,817
Location:
XBL: mickloaf
PSN: mickloaf
Nintendo ID: segamick
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Post by mick_aka on Apr 27, 2019 11:02:00 GMT
I should have really phrased this post a bit better, I'd had a wine.
Been trying to think of decent shooters for my son to try out but I don't want to totally overwhelm him.
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Post by warmachine3000 on Apr 27, 2019 12:26:50 GMT
I'd recommend Game Paradise. I'm always in the mood to play that game. Plus it isn't that expensive
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Post by Yart on Apr 28, 2019 0:24:41 GMT
Non bullet hell on Saturn? If you want to give him an easy normal shmup, give him Image Fight. Cho Aniki is also really good for the young mind. I'm kidding of course.There's a port of Fantasy Zone isn't there? The non standard level format could act as a gateway to the genre where you can explore the level at your own leisure. Twinkle Star Sprites is pretty cool too. I don't recall Hyper Duel or Blast Wind having very dense bullet patterns, but it's been a while. (The latter was an easy 1CC back in the day, but the game itself is a bit dull tbh) I forget if Guardian Force got brutal later on. I remember it starting tame. Do NOT give your kid a game like Gradius where you go back to a checkpoint on death!! Those traumatized me growing up, even with shmup experience. Haha! Restarting a section over and over again is incredibly frustrating and off putting. This next part is a huge section where I did science on everyone's my favourite game that most definitely probably doesn't fall under the topic in it's stock form, so you could spit on this and move on if you want. I remembered that DoDonPachi had a Very Easy difficulty for Saturn Mode and I remember my sister playing that back in the day. Out of curiosity I just fired up SSF to see just how easy it is. While there were a couple parts that caught me off guard, the bullet density and speed is so low throughout 95% of the game that you don't even have to memorize things. You can actually admire the background art as it goes by... but regardless of how rusty I was, using a continue on the final boss I think was a fair indicator that even that difficulty might be too much for a newbie. (And/or I just suck really bad now. I haven't really played shmups steady in like 5 years) However you can increase bomb count and lives in the options too, and Saturn mode allows you to insert more credits using R.
I know you said no bullet hells, but out of pure science I made note of some notorious parts where the difficulty was toned down: Stage 2 boss' shotgun explosion leaves huge gaps that are easy to enter, like, only about half the screen is covered in bullets.
Stage 3's teleporting in ships actually give you space to maneuver. (However the boss will be devastating to a newcomer if they try for the bees in the left and right guns, but very manageable if they start off taking out the front guns)
Stage 4's crazy giant laser boss fires the lasers at an incredibly low rate making dodging very easy. (Though this is the stage where I had my first death on. The guns that pop out of the ground at the beginning will catch anyone off guard)
Stage 5's boss' screen filling pattern may be a bit tricky still. While the density is much lower, the stray random bullets could throw someone off if they're not paying attention. The fireballs come down like once every few seconds making it basically impossible to get hit by them if you know they're coming.
The Hibachi first form fires so little bullets at times that there are actually no bullets on the screen because he's just firing them off to the side.
Stage 6 boss and Hibachi's final form will give any kid nightmares still.
Oddly enough, Stage 0 (Saturn Mode exclusive) is harder than Stage 1 and 2. That could potentially be a deal breaker as some of the ships do fire an intimidating formation of bullets.
Maybe once he's more comfortable with the genre it might be a good next step. It'll be easy enough to ease himself into, hard enough to have to replay to learn things, but I honestly don't see it becoming frustrating until the stage 6 boss and up. I was able to fart back and forth left and right just tapping fire completely out of my usual "pattern" and still only have a couple times where I experienced a close call where I had to make a tricky dodge.
Honestly though, looking at the list of shmups, I think starting him on another system altogether might be the wiser choice. The NES and Mega Drive have a lot of newbie friendly shmups.
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mick_aka
Kickin' it lively!
"Mick is moderately adequate."
Joined: April 2007
Posts: 9,817
Location:
XBL: mickloaf
PSN: mickloaf
Nintendo ID: segamick
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Post by mick_aka on Apr 28, 2019 0:51:30 GMT
I mean hes not a small child or anything he's in high school so hes got experience with some modern games, hes just really getting interested in old stuff and loves watching youtube vids of people doing crazy shmup runs.
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Post by Yart on Apr 28, 2019 6:44:15 GMT
Honestly, I'd say just give him anything that has a difficulty setting then if he knows what to expect. Shmups are like going under water: you're scared to put your head under for the first time but once you do it's fine.
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Post by zyrobs on Apr 28, 2019 13:22:19 GMT
I mean hes not a small child or anything he's in high school so hes got experience with some modern games, hes just really getting interested in old stuff and loves watching youtube vids of people doing crazy shmup runs. Give him Darius Gaiden and tell him he can play something else once he can 1cc it.
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martiniii
Joined: January 2010
Posts: 2,112
Location:
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Post by martiniii on Apr 29, 2019 4:21:25 GMT
Honestly though, looking at the list of shmups, I think starting him on another system altogether might be the wiser choice. The NES and Mega Drive have a lot of newbie friendly shmups. Yeah, I've found all the Saturn shmups I've seen to be excessively hard. The TurboGrafx-16/CD has proven a much friendlier source of shmups for me.
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Post by davyk on May 4, 2019 18:21:09 GMT
There is a port of fantasy zone but it is by no means easy. And bosses have to be beaten with 1 life.
The game can be tamed in the options though. Lovely port and I think still affordable.
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Post by Team Andromeda on May 5, 2019 8:45:29 GMT
Soukyugurentai is the king of all shooters but then I would say Guardian Force and Layer Section both of which are often overlooked and underrated
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Post by davyk on May 8, 2019 8:36:56 GMT
The Parodius games are very accessible - though avoid the first one which is still very good but has the Gradius style crippling restart points. Deluxe Pack has the first game and Fantastic Journey (got a PAL release too) which lets you carry on after a life loss (though I think there is an option for enabling check points - can't remember).
Oshaberi Parodius has an option that lets you set the percentage of bullets aimed at each player in 2 player mode.
But with all Parodius games you have to watch out for powering up too much - the rank system in those games responds really quickly to player power ups and bullet clouds can quickly form.
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Post by Sonnington on May 15, 2019 1:21:05 GMT
I don't really like shmups, but I do like Galactic Attack and Cotton 2. I played the hell out of Galactic Attack back in highschool. I was so amazed you could flip the TV on its side and it would play better. It's a fairly easy shmup and super satisfying. Cotton 2 is just super cool. Having to manage which items you pick up and throwing enemies which gives you bonus points was a fun unique touch. Not to mention the visuals are bright and creative.
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Post by davyk on May 25, 2019 19:56:34 GMT
Galactic Attack (aka Layer Section) is one of the best old school style shooters around on any platform. The Saturn port of the arcade original is stunning. The TATE mode is gorgeous but even the yoko mode is good because you can switch the HUD with the shoulder buttons so you can see more.
You can also opt to play with the display rotated 90 degrees but not the TV and play it has a hori game.
The soundtrack has been beefed up on the Saturn too - would have nice to be able to select original or remix but it's no big deal. It's a rock hard game though - best I've managed on 1 credit is around level 5.
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