Tell me the truth, is she dead?

[netnerd85]

Quick specs: 21 pins. Model 1 case. (I feel lied to!)

Recently picked up a lovely Sega Saturn from a good family man.

This lovely Sega Saturn I speak of is dead to me and maybe the rest of the world. Oh it started out alright, giggling, we had a lot in common, but now this:

And this!

It began with trouble starting games and detecting disc. Lots of trouble shooting of the laser and then a replacement and calibration seemed to get it on track.

Things started to get hot and heavy, perhaps too hot but common thought says its okay, they get hot. Especially on the left where the power supply is.

The same old disc reading issues appeared, glitches though, many more glitches. Freezing, crashing. Leaky salty eyes.

So I stripped the beast down and found this... (on PSU and main board)

Is she dead, did I kill her? is it Game Over (*sad* yeah)?

[zyrobs]

The stuff you highlighted is just flux or glue.

Try recapping the unit. Saturns need that very badly nowadays.

[netnerd85]

Hrmmm, none of the caps have the usual visual wear and tear but I may have to. I'll probably get a new PICO ATX PSU either way.

I just had it on for about an hour and it finally played a game properly, about a full 10 minute race. I tested a few reboots and it loaded some what consistently.

[zyrobs]

The caps have a finite lifespan. The electrolyte dries up inside them eventually, even if they are visually fine.

If your Saturn crashes at first, but starts getting more stable the longer and longer you keep it on, then the issue is with the caps. Once the electrolytic caps are replaced, the system will start getting stable faster, and then stay that way for longer.

The PSU has its own problems, but they just cause the system to not work, not randomly crash it.

[netnerd85]

Thanks for the info.

Just main board caps, will this do the trick? or will it depend on model console5.com/store/sega-saturn-cap-kit.html

[zyrobs]

Main board caps should help, but there's a chance that your model needs the PSU fixed too.
Judging by your pics, you have a VA SD PAL board, which needs these caps:
6 x 100uf / 6.3V
10 x 10uf / 16V
2 x 1uf / 50V
6 x 220uf / 4V
1 x 220uf / 6.3V
2 x 22uf / 6.3V
1 x 330uf / 6.3V
1 x 4.7uf / 25V
5 x 47uf / 6.3V
2 x 47uf / 16V

The wiki list on that site matches my own so I guess it should be correct. But make sure that all the caps are low profile, they don't fit under the metal shielding otherwise - even if you put them in 90 degrees tilted, there might not be enough room. I learned that the hard way.

[netnerd85]

Can testing the capacitors on the board be done using a multimeter or are they too small? like here: www.fluke.com/en-us/learn/best-practices/test-tools-basics/digital-multimeters/how-to-measure-capacitance-with-a-digital-multimeter

I've never replaced one before so the thought of doing them all is daunting but if it's the only way...

[zyrobs]

They can be tested, but you need to remove them first, and at that rate you may as well replace them. And it's pointless to just test them - electrolytic caps have a lifespan of about 20 years, and Saturns are well past that point now.

[buckoa51]

Isn't that 20 years of use though, rather than just 20 years regardless what you're doing with your Saturn? (not saying Saturn's don't often need recapping because obviously they do).

[netnerd85]

I found this, might be able to check the caps with a ESR meter: youtu.be/qDABYKoVO4Q

[netnerd85]

My new capacitors arrived and it took over an hour to replace one but I didn't damage it further.
29 Caps to go. This sucks hard.

[zyrobs]

If it takes that long to replace a cap then you are more liable to burn the board instead of fixing it. Why does it take so long? Just suck up the solder from the caps two connectors from the bottom side of the board (use solder wick), then push in the new cap through the holes, solder it in, and cut the excess length of the legs.

[netnerd85]

Well, this is my first soldering job. I tested the Saturn after a couple of times after the first three replacements. Up to 7 caps now, the last 4 going much faster. It seems my smaller soldering iron is a bit dodgy (has heat control), the bigger one with no temp control seems more consistent. I was having wick issues but it works with the other soldering iron. (The other just burns a hole in it, what the fridge).

I'm a bit worried about the heat (not sure if heating up then cooling down is an issue though?) but I'm not leaving burn marks anymore. I'm going to replace 3 more caps then test the board again.

[zyrobs]

I recommend changing all the caps, or at least those which act as regulators around the PLL chip first. Changing random 7 caps may or may not make a difference, depending on which ones you do. For example changing the video output caps won't really help with the console crashing. But then again it might be wiser to just changes those first and the PLL ones later, because it sounds like you need the practice.

Your smaller soldering iron probably has less performance than the bigger one. Or just less thermal mass due to its size. Controlling the temperature is important, but if the heating element does not have enough performance, then it will drop temperature due to the heat transfer involved. In other words, when you touch the cool metal with it, it will cool down the iron, and won't be able to melt the solder anymore. You either need to keep it in contact for a longer time, or turn the temperature up significantly, both which will end up burning the board. The same happens when you use the wick, you won't be able to heat it up so it can melt the solder, but it will be hot enough that prolonged exposure will burn the PCB.

So a more powerful iron is better in that regard, because you can melt the solder instantly and be done with it, instead of poking the board for minutes, until it ends up burned.

Note that the last time I recapped known faulty Saturns, it did not fix the immediately, I still had to run them a bit for them to become stable. However before that, I could run them for hours and they did not get stable, so the recapping is what fixed them.

[netnerd85]

Yay, I finally finished, thanks to the purchasing of a Vacuum Desoldering Station - if you don't have one, BUY ONE! it's must for through hole components!

I was 9 or so caps from finishing so I tested it quickly to make sure the accumulation of dust and bad soldering hadn't killed anything - it worked pretty well. No graphical glitches at all and all but Sega Rally (rough disc) ran.

Finished all the cap replacing. No more glitches (so far) but Hi-Octane had a crash and a few disc read issues.

It seems playable now... almost as good as my model 2.