Picture output expectations

[toure]

I set up my Japanese Saturn with my 28inch Sony Trinitron last night and had plenty of fun.

The only slight concern I have is that I thought the output onto the screen (not the graphics themselves) could be better. I am using an RGB scart cable. I'm not exactly sure of the model on the Sony.

It's difficult to explain what I was seeing but in DonPachi for example, I was hoping for a crisper image. My feeling was that as the TV is 16:9 and 4:3 maybe the aspect of DonPachi wasn't lending itself well to it.

Anyone had a similar problem.

[clerksfan4life]

Have you tried other games to see what the picture is like? You could try adjusting the settings on your TV (Colour, Contrast, Sharpness, etc) or try different screen settings like zoom and aspect ratio. As far as I know RGB is the best picture you can get from the Saturn so it won't be the connector.

[toure]

Thanks,

I had a play around with the cables last night and it seemed that one of the scarts on the TV wasn't giving me proper RGB? Or maybe there was something wrong with it.

Anyway after plugging it into the other scart socket its improved.

[mick_aka]

Sony Trinitrons as a rule only have 1 RGB SCART socket (usually the smartlink one) and the other composite SCART.

[consolepassion]

Very few TV's have more than one RGB socket - almost all TV's have RGB/AV1.

If you are using a Japanese Sega Saturn you must ensure you have the correct RGB cable - there are slight differences in the output on Jap, US and UK Sat's and different cables are needed to display properly.

AndyB

[chizzles]

I think you mean there are slight differences on the input on TV between countries

The Saturn's AV-pinout is the same across all regions. It's the RGB ins on TVs and the cables that aren't

Aside from the PAL-50 and NTSC-60 output differences between regions, the output remains the same as far as the pinout itself is concerned and you can't use a Japanese SCART cable on a Euro-Scart socket, unless you are intent on setting your Saturn on fire.





Many TVs also have an S-Video scart, some TVs allow for S-Video and RGB to be input through the same scart with two channels linked to the same input.

Assuming your SCART is RGB and is a Euro-SCART plugged into an RGB SCART socket, you will be getting RGB.

The real question is:
Is your TV 100Hz?
If so, it probably does a bit of image manipulation on-the-fly - such as anti-alias and some even go as far as to attempt motion compensation.

[consolepassion]

I am fully aware of the differences between NTSC,PAL,50Hz and 60Hz. I am also aware that the pin configuration on a Japanese Scart is different to the UK one, making a Japanese scart cable useless in the UK.

What I mean in this case is that you need a UK Scart cable that is designed for use specifically with a Japanese Saturn. A UK Saturn scart will not neccessarily work with a Japanese Saturn. The voltage output on the Sync on Jap Saturns is slightly different to the UK Saturn so unless you have a cable that corrects this your display may not sync properly, resulting in rolling or wavy lines accross the screen.

Look at Raven Games website - they sell two UK scarts, one for PAL Saturns, one for Japanese...

AndyB

[chizzles]

Would that not also effect composite video performance seeing as the Saturn's sync is actually composite?

Most modern TV's will be willing to accept and process a composite signal correctly even if the voltage or sync rate is slightly off due to the high lenience of most video processing equipment,

My money first and foremost is on Digital manipulation mucking up the image, over a voltage difference in sync. Although I had had sets that refuse to work because of Sync differences between even PAL equipment in the past (PS1 didn't like my Toshiba CRT).

Am I right in thinking that the Megadrive is also effected by this?

[consolepassion]

The Saturn does have its own Comp Sync - it is pin one. I guess the Japanese Saturn may have problems with Composite to - I have never checked as I only have Jap compatible scarts...

I have never had any problems with MD RGB, but I have heard of varying degrees of success with the Saturn RGB on different sets.

You are correct in saying that most modern TV's will accept the signal if the voltage on Sync is off, but I think the voltage is *considerably* off on the Jap Saturn, hence the need for a specific Scart that corrects the problem. I guess some may work, it depends how forgiving the set is!

Newer TV's definitely vary - ironically, I find the top end all singing, all dancing LCD's tend to have the most problems, while cheaper non-brand models seem to work fine.

AndyB

[toure]

Thanks for all the info guys.

I've noticed something else. The picture is slightly off centre to the left, so a small portion of the left of the screen is missing. Its only slight but annoying.

In Capcom Gen 2 you can adjust this before playing but not on any of my other games. Would this be down to the cable?

[elend]

I had this problem with nearly every console I connected via RGB Scart. It was really annoying and no other cable will help there. What you can do, though, is to adjust your TV. Many TVs have so called "Service Modes", where you can adjust things like that. You may have to google for your TV and find out how to reach the Service Mode. Be warned, though: Note down all factory settings, before changing some, you may alter something, which you can't undo, if you don't know which value it originally was. You also may damage your TV, so only try to find the horizontal align option and change that.

[chizzles]

Yeah, you'll also find that for some reason Horizontal Alignment differs between different types of video input, although for some reason TV manufacturers often only include one adjustable value for all inputs (Ah well...).

The reason I asked about MegaDrive was, on my Megadrive, if I flick the switch to 60Hz on my SHARP CRT I get a rolling picture but it's fine on all my other TVs. The SHARP also works with 60Hz from just about every other device (Except Dreamcast? I wonder if SEGA's outputs are kind of non-standard or something?)

[Deleted]

Oct 5, 2008 19:15:21 GMT @consolepassion said:

The Saturn does have its own Comp Sync - it is pin one. I guess the Japanese Saturn may have problems with Composite to - I have never checked as I only have Jap compatible scarts...

I have never had any problems with MD RGB, but I have heard of varying degrees of success with the Saturn RGB on different sets.

You are correct in saying that most modern TV's will accept the signal if the voltage on Sync is off, but I think the voltage is *considerably* off on the Jap Saturn, hence the need for a specific Scart that corrects the problem. I guess some may work, it depends how forgiving the set is!

Newer TV's definitely vary - ironically, I find the top end all singing, all dancing LCD's tend to have the most problems, while cheaper non-brand models seem to work fine.

AndyB

I had problems with a Japanese Saturn too Andy. I was getting black and white through RGB SCART - even ordered another cable from Raven which had no effect. I got mine to work by using a particular type of SCART block that worked when I plugged in the Saturn and another RGB source like my Freeview box. Got that idea from the NTSC-UK forums.


I recently discovered that the Wii on standby through a normal SCART block makes it work too which is really weird.