shenmue playable demo
Dec 4, 2011 13:56:13 GMT
Post by Anthaemia. on Dec 4, 2011 13:56:13 GMT
Aydan, I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to respond to a few of your points the best I can, one by one...
It never left Am2's offices.
Actually, there were a very (and I mean very) small number of builds that made their way to Sega's overseas offices - as with Saturn VF3 and a few other AM2 projects from the same period that I'm currently investigating.
If there is something out there then I'm about 900000% that it's almost unplayable as a game.
At several intervals during the officially released video footage, you can clearly see command text being displayed when buttons are pressed, such as when Ryo opens the door to the basement. There is absolutely no doubt that Shenmue reached an advanced playable stage.
No one know show far along it is
At this junction, I should warn everyone that I'm about to unleash one of my trademark lengthy pieces. You have been warned. So, here we go:
This guy's claim of 89% complete seems a little too precise based on my previous experience with prototype discs - that would be closer to a late version from the localisation process more than a work-in-progress game in its original language. Besides, didn't someone from AM2 once confirm that the voices were last to be implemented?
That in itself must surely justify more than being considered 11% of the development... and if he tries convincing us his discs have speech we know this is indeed a hoax (to put it very politely) since the recordings weren't even started until early 1999, which is more than a year after Saturn work stopped, or at least it is according to my research.
The fact he mentions there being eight discs either backs up a long-held rumour about Shenmue Saturn Version or proves that he's definitely studied previous discussions about this game. However, there are still too many inconsistencies in his overall story for this to be a genuine case, though as always I'd be prepared to swallow my pride, apologise and then see if we can preserve this important piece of software correctly.
I'm sure plenty of you here will remember the recent events elsewhere, resulting in a final copy of the unreleased Geist Force for Dreamcast finally surfacing. Although the planned release campaign has yet to materialise, I'd rather focus on other outcomes of this particular episode, anyway.
The former Sega programmer who came forward with that disc also provided further concrete evidence about other similar titles, including one I'm certain you'll all know without me even having to mention it by name for the millionth time this week alone! To cut a potentially long story short, his information proved invaluable in my quest of ensuring that anything I put out there in the end is as close to reality as possible.
Thanks to his insider knowledge, I was able to finally lay a few old rumours to bed and read between the lines where different people said things that may have overlapped on specific details a little, creating a vision that's more like the truth, even if this method does still rely on some creative licensing and pure speculation, helped along the way due to my strongly-developed instincts.
In the end, as I said before, I'd be absolutely thrilled if this turns out to be a genuine case. On the other hand, at the moment the initial signs aren't quite as good as with previous examples. I've lost count of attention-seekers over the years who've posted on forums not exactly known for prototype collecting after just a handful of messages, boasting about how their brother's friend's colleague handed them down some holy grail, only for the trail to go cold after a few cautious questions, general community scepticism and a lack of proof this even exists at all.
We'll find out soon enough how this plays out, as to be fair it's not the first time someone's hinted at copies of Shenmue on the Saturn floating around. There are some truly amazing titles in the hands of people right here, though you won't often find them openly talking about such things! I guess one way to ascertain whether this is legitimate or not is to look at what we do know at the moment.
For example, he mentions his cousin "working with us and Valve," and according to his profile he's based in Viet Nam. I guess one of my opening questions is whether anyone knows if Valve has associates in that particular corner of the world. My guess is that we're either looking at an outsourcing company or contracted group with links to Valve.
To be fair, he does seem to have a quite good knowledge of programming, while his documented attempts to fix problems with the game that he describes in quite accurate detail may be further evidence of not only his authenticity, but also the game's exact level of completion. Returning to the possibility of connections with Valve for a second, it's unlikely his cousin works outside of Viet Nam, as I don't think Shenmue would have found its way too far from Japan. Actually, let's take a moment to recall previous talk of copies being around the Asia region...
Then again, I'm still not convinced - once a project's been burned to discs, can changes like those he's proposed really be made? After all, he speaks of debuggers, modifying AI and playing with the controls, which suggests this is more source material than any playable code. My greatest concern is that whatever he does release ends up being quite different from what is on the original discs, thanks to his interference.
While many will appreciate his efforts to get Shenmue into a more playable state, there are purists who would rather just get their hands on this game the way AM2 left it... mostly for comparison purposes, just in case various builds ever leak, as happened with Panzer Dragoon Saga a while back.
One more key issue that's putting me off is his talk of the Dreamcast version being created around a straight port of the Saturn code, which may only be true to an extent. I'm no expert on the backwards compatibility between the SH2 and SH4 chipsets, but there were also quite a few parallel programming tricks AM2 used that didn't rely on Hitachi's dual processors, and I doubt the Dreamcast would have been able to manage replicating these without significant code reworking being necessary.
Besides, a large amount of the final game's content (including the first harbour sequence) was created especially to take full advantage of the Dreamcast's greater technical capabilities. I seem to recall the "Tower of Babel" tech demo shown at the New Challenge conference even being the inspiration for the camera movement showcase that occurs when you reach Kowloon in Shenmue II, though a scaled-down version of this also features in the Saturn video.
This may be venturing slightly off-topic (in what I'm already very aware of being a typically epic rant), but anyone who's seen the Virtua Fighter animated series will recall certain motifs, angles and character designs that were later recycled for Shenmue. Of course, my use of the word "later" probably isn't the most appropriate since AM2 started research into this game around the same time it was developing the original VF. In fact, I believe Yu Suzuki first envisioned a spin-off RPG following a visit to China in 1993 when he was researching martial arts.
Also, returning to the original subject of discussion, I think we'd have known by now if "Shenmue" was shown at E3 on the Saturn - even as a presentation behind closed doors. I've hinted at some of the incredible things Sega was displaying to a select few in the past, and from what I've managed to find out Shenmue was definitely NOT at E3, though I wouldn't be surprised if it was seen at the Tokyo Game Show, which is usually a lot more secretive when it comes to what exactly happens off the main floor.
Another thing I've said before is that the reason few people within Sega can remember much of Shenmue as a Saturn game is because at that point in its development the game was still known by a different codename to the later Dreamcast version, and it's possible they don't actually associate the various early name used with the more commonly-reported Project Berkeley, Akira's Quest or Virtua Fighter RPG.
At one point, the original working title for Shenmue was actually listed on Sega of Japan's official site, and even had a short-lived page of its own within AM2's domain that can still be found via the Wayback Machine to this day if you know where to look. Don't expect me to reveal it here, though - my own levels of research aren't exactly outside the reach of mere mortals, so it's highly likely at least someone here will be able to figure this one out!
Finally for now, is anyone else concerned by his mention of using the Saturn SDK? Presumably this is a reference to the tools we've all had access to for years now, and I doubt he'll be able to do much with these. Again, I'd be the first to back down if it turns out he's actually using a complete development environment, but forgive me if I don't hold my breath just yet.
Actually, there were a very (and I mean very) small number of builds that made their way to Sega's overseas offices - as with Saturn VF3 and a few other AM2 projects from the same period that I'm currently investigating.
At several intervals during the officially released video footage, you can clearly see command text being displayed when buttons are pressed, such as when Ryo opens the door to the basement. There is absolutely no doubt that Shenmue reached an advanced playable stage.
At this junction, I should warn everyone that I'm about to unleash one of my trademark lengthy pieces. You have been warned. So, here we go:
This guy's claim of 89% complete seems a little too precise based on my previous experience with prototype discs - that would be closer to a late version from the localisation process more than a work-in-progress game in its original language. Besides, didn't someone from AM2 once confirm that the voices were last to be implemented?
That in itself must surely justify more than being considered 11% of the development... and if he tries convincing us his discs have speech we know this is indeed a hoax (to put it very politely) since the recordings weren't even started until early 1999, which is more than a year after Saturn work stopped, or at least it is according to my research.
The fact he mentions there being eight discs either backs up a long-held rumour about Shenmue Saturn Version or proves that he's definitely studied previous discussions about this game. However, there are still too many inconsistencies in his overall story for this to be a genuine case, though as always I'd be prepared to swallow my pride, apologise and then see if we can preserve this important piece of software correctly.
I'm sure plenty of you here will remember the recent events elsewhere, resulting in a final copy of the unreleased Geist Force for Dreamcast finally surfacing. Although the planned release campaign has yet to materialise, I'd rather focus on other outcomes of this particular episode, anyway.
The former Sega programmer who came forward with that disc also provided further concrete evidence about other similar titles, including one I'm certain you'll all know without me even having to mention it by name for the millionth time this week alone! To cut a potentially long story short, his information proved invaluable in my quest of ensuring that anything I put out there in the end is as close to reality as possible.
Thanks to his insider knowledge, I was able to finally lay a few old rumours to bed and read between the lines where different people said things that may have overlapped on specific details a little, creating a vision that's more like the truth, even if this method does still rely on some creative licensing and pure speculation, helped along the way due to my strongly-developed instincts.
In the end, as I said before, I'd be absolutely thrilled if this turns out to be a genuine case. On the other hand, at the moment the initial signs aren't quite as good as with previous examples. I've lost count of attention-seekers over the years who've posted on forums not exactly known for prototype collecting after just a handful of messages, boasting about how their brother's friend's colleague handed them down some holy grail, only for the trail to go cold after a few cautious questions, general community scepticism and a lack of proof this even exists at all.
We'll find out soon enough how this plays out, as to be fair it's not the first time someone's hinted at copies of Shenmue on the Saturn floating around. There are some truly amazing titles in the hands of people right here, though you won't often find them openly talking about such things! I guess one way to ascertain whether this is legitimate or not is to look at what we do know at the moment.
For example, he mentions his cousin "working with us and Valve," and according to his profile he's based in Viet Nam. I guess one of my opening questions is whether anyone knows if Valve has associates in that particular corner of the world. My guess is that we're either looking at an outsourcing company or contracted group with links to Valve.
To be fair, he does seem to have a quite good knowledge of programming, while his documented attempts to fix problems with the game that he describes in quite accurate detail may be further evidence of not only his authenticity, but also the game's exact level of completion. Returning to the possibility of connections with Valve for a second, it's unlikely his cousin works outside of Viet Nam, as I don't think Shenmue would have found its way too far from Japan. Actually, let's take a moment to recall previous talk of copies being around the Asia region...
Then again, I'm still not convinced - once a project's been burned to discs, can changes like those he's proposed really be made? After all, he speaks of debuggers, modifying AI and playing with the controls, which suggests this is more source material than any playable code. My greatest concern is that whatever he does release ends up being quite different from what is on the original discs, thanks to his interference.
While many will appreciate his efforts to get Shenmue into a more playable state, there are purists who would rather just get their hands on this game the way AM2 left it... mostly for comparison purposes, just in case various builds ever leak, as happened with Panzer Dragoon Saga a while back.
One more key issue that's putting me off is his talk of the Dreamcast version being created around a straight port of the Saturn code, which may only be true to an extent. I'm no expert on the backwards compatibility between the SH2 and SH4 chipsets, but there were also quite a few parallel programming tricks AM2 used that didn't rely on Hitachi's dual processors, and I doubt the Dreamcast would have been able to manage replicating these without significant code reworking being necessary.
Besides, a large amount of the final game's content (including the first harbour sequence) was created especially to take full advantage of the Dreamcast's greater technical capabilities. I seem to recall the "Tower of Babel" tech demo shown at the New Challenge conference even being the inspiration for the camera movement showcase that occurs when you reach Kowloon in Shenmue II, though a scaled-down version of this also features in the Saturn video.
This may be venturing slightly off-topic (in what I'm already very aware of being a typically epic rant), but anyone who's seen the Virtua Fighter animated series will recall certain motifs, angles and character designs that were later recycled for Shenmue. Of course, my use of the word "later" probably isn't the most appropriate since AM2 started research into this game around the same time it was developing the original VF. In fact, I believe Yu Suzuki first envisioned a spin-off RPG following a visit to China in 1993 when he was researching martial arts.
Also, returning to the original subject of discussion, I think we'd have known by now if "Shenmue" was shown at E3 on the Saturn - even as a presentation behind closed doors. I've hinted at some of the incredible things Sega was displaying to a select few in the past, and from what I've managed to find out Shenmue was definitely NOT at E3, though I wouldn't be surprised if it was seen at the Tokyo Game Show, which is usually a lot more secretive when it comes to what exactly happens off the main floor.
Another thing I've said before is that the reason few people within Sega can remember much of Shenmue as a Saturn game is because at that point in its development the game was still known by a different codename to the later Dreamcast version, and it's possible they don't actually associate the various early name used with the more commonly-reported Project Berkeley, Akira's Quest or Virtua Fighter RPG.
At one point, the original working title for Shenmue was actually listed on Sega of Japan's official site, and even had a short-lived page of its own within AM2's domain that can still be found via the Wayback Machine to this day if you know where to look. Don't expect me to reveal it here, though - my own levels of research aren't exactly outside the reach of mere mortals, so it's highly likely at least someone here will be able to figure this one out!
Finally for now, is anyone else concerned by his mention of using the Saturn SDK? Presumably this is a reference to the tools we've all had access to for years now, and I doubt he'll be able to do much with these. Again, I'd be the first to back down if it turns out he's actually using a complete development environment, but forgive me if I don't hold my breath just yet.
