|
Post by darkman01 on Sept 9, 2017 12:08:59 GMT
Even though I played the US Sega CD and PS1 releases at some time or another, playing the Saturn port would be great. I always wonder how far Working Designs got on the US Saturn port. It was advertised for release in most US magazines in 1996. by working designs standards, that means it would have been released in 1998
|
|
|
Post by xDerekRx on Sept 12, 2017 8:34:45 GMT
Even though I played the US Sega CD and PS1 releases at some time or another, playing the Saturn port would be great. I always wonder how far Working Designs got on the US Saturn port. It was advertised for release in most US magazines in 1996. by working designs standards, that means it would have been released in 1998 True for many reasons. But I also I believe they announced it in 1996 for a 98 release.
|
|
|
Post by darkman01 on Sept 12, 2017 19:10:14 GMT
by working designs standards, that means it would have been released in 1998 True for many reasons. But I also I believe they announced it in 1996 for a 98 release. some of them good reasons, they did their localisations justice, if one looks what happened with the Grandia translation....it falls flat compared to Working Design's efforts.
|
|
|
Post by zyrobs on Sept 15, 2017 0:46:30 GMT
I haven't checked the files myself but based on the filenames you posted
0 - main executable CDDA1 and 2 - filesystem hooks for the cd audio tracks
MAP_TONE.BIN - No idea what this is. SE_MAP.SEQ - Might be a MIDI Sequence file, but again not really sure 85 SE_MAP.DAT files SE_SYS.SEQ - Might be a MIDI Sequence file, but again not really sure 68 SOUND.DAT files SYS_TONE.BIN - 32KB Binary file. Not sure what this is, probably part of the main program.
^-- these most likely all sound files. The Saturn sound driver by sega works by having a main 68k exe (a few kilobytes), a TONE file that holds each PCM sample to play back either as a sound effect or instruments for chiptune music, a SEQuence file that tells in what sequence to play back those samples (for music they are longer, for sfx they are 1-shot commands mostly), sometimes a DSP program if the music uses the sound DSP, and a MAP file (few bytes) that tells where in the memory the tone, sequence, and dsp files are stored in, as well as the dsp memory area. You can have multiple tone and sequence files loaded separately as well.
edit: oh, that was a 4 year old post... nevermind.
|
|
|
Post by xDerekRx on Sept 28, 2017 4:43:53 GMT
True for many reasons. But I also I believe they announced it in 1996 for a 98 release. some of them good reasons, they did their localisations justice, if one looks what happened with the Grandia translation....it falls flat compared to Working Design's efforts. Id agree. They had a small team and though some may not like their translation style, without them so many cool games wouldn't have made it to the US. Lunar 1/2, Magic Knight Rayearth, Popful Mail, Iron Storm, handful of shooters, Elemental Gearbolt... and not to mention Dragon Force, the only WD game that got a PAL release. As far as length, Magic Knight Rayearth took 3 years to complete (due to code issues and other rights issues) . Most companies may have cancelled it, but they shelved it and released it as the last Saturn title outside of Japan for the fans. This was a year after Stolar pissed them off too. Turned out to be a great little anime title. Very true about Grandia. Which was a game that WD was supposed to translate over here but fell through.
|
|
|
Post by darkman01 on Sept 28, 2017 9:47:01 GMT
some of them good reasons, they did their localisations justice, if one looks what happened with the Grandia translation....it falls flat compared to Working Design's efforts. Id agree. They had a small team and though some may not like their translation style, without them so many cool games wouldn't have made it to the US. Lunar 1/2, Magic Knight Rayearth, Popful Mail, Iron Storm, handful of shooters, Elemental Gearbolt... and not to mention Dragon Force, the only WD game that got a PAL release. As far as length, Magic Knight Rayearth took 3 years to complete (due to code issues and other rights issues) . Most companies may have cancelled it, but they shelved it and released it as the last Saturn title outside of Japan for the fans. This was a year after Stolar pissed them off too. Turned out to be a great little anime title. Very true about Grandia. Which was a game that WD was supposed to translate over here but fell through. that said, I will say one thing, had WD gotten the rights to Grandia, it may not have seen a European release, as far as I know the only WD translated game to make it to Europe was Dragon Force (and that was published by Sega in PAL territories) certainly none of the Lunar games made it to Europe (though the PSP remake did get a digital only release on PSN years ago)
|
|
|
Post by xDerekRx on Sept 29, 2017 7:16:24 GMT
Id agree. They had a small team and though some may not like their translation style, without them so many cool games wouldn't have made it to the US. Lunar 1/2, Magic Knight Rayearth, Popful Mail, Iron Storm, handful of shooters, Elemental Gearbolt... and not to mention Dragon Force, the only WD game that got a PAL release. As far as length, Magic Knight Rayearth took 3 years to complete (due to code issues and other rights issues) . Most companies may have cancelled it, but they shelved it and released it as the last Saturn title outside of Japan for the fans. This was a year after Stolar pissed them off too. Turned out to be a great little anime title. Very true about Grandia. Which was a game that WD was supposed to translate over here but fell through. that said, I will say one thing, had WD gotten the rights to Grandia, it may not have seen a European release, as far as I know the only WD translated game to make it to Europe was Dragon Force (and that was published by Sega in PAL territories) certainly none of the Lunar games made it to Europe (though the PSP remake did get a digital only release on PSN years ago) Pretty much what I said in my post Im active on the WD (or Gajinworks) forums so its fun you can still talk to Vic Ireland openly. He'll tell you about anything! My memory may be off on this a bit but I believe he said the only reason Dragon Force got a PAL release was because of an exchange with Sega of Europe for Sega Ages Vol 1 rights, which WD brought to the states in 1997. So at least our European members here got one of their better releases almost by accident. So yeah no way Grandia would have gotten a European release for Saturn had it been done by WD. Its too bad there wasn't anyone in Europe willing to work with WD on distribution since a lot of their stuff is great. Easily the best packaging across any region on the Saturn for some of their titles as well. (Magic Knight Rayearth and Albert Odyssey probably the 2 best) Its amazing to think had Stolar not pissed them off we'd have had at the very least a few more english RPGs and a handful of shooters.
|
|
|
Post by darkman01 on Sept 29, 2017 9:30:32 GMT
to be fair to WD , not too many developers and publishers wanted to publish RPGs in Europe either, at least prior to FF7 , and even then it was limited, Europe never got games like Xenogears or Chrono Cross either, it was actually a bit worse on the Nintendo side than Sega's , so oddly the Mega Drive might have been the better RPG system simply because Sega actually published the Phantasy Star and Shining games in PAL territories.
if Square couldn't be bothered releasing Final Fantasy in Europe (the closest thing to a mainstream JRPG at the time) , I can't blame a smaller company like WD being worried about releasing much more obscure games.
|
|
|
Post by xDerekRx on Sept 30, 2017 9:00:40 GMT
Was wondering what region you were in Darkman.
PAL/Europe region generally seemed to have gotten the shortest end of the stick. Even in North America we still didn't compare to Japan.
I had no idea you guys didn't even get basic stuff like Xenogears and Chrono Cross?
Before FFVII, even in the US companies didn't think RPGs were mainstream. Then after that, tons of them flooded over.
Bernie Stolar got a lot of guff for being anti-RPG but Holy Ark, SFIII, Panzer Saga were the most one could really expect. Even though Albert Odyssey and Magic Knight Rayearth weren't knockout titles, it was still nice WD brought them out late to give the library some diversity.
From what I've gathered from Vic Ireland himself, had Sega not pissed him off at E3 1997 he was looking at doing
- TENGAI MAKYO THE APOCALYPSE IV - Sakura Wars - Thunderforce V - Blast Wind/Hyper Duel pack - Lunar Silver Star
And Grandia was too expensive for the rights, so it seemed he was hoping Sega would license it and contract them for the translation.
Vic also said when I asked him, he really wanted to do all 3 parts of Shining Force III but knew it would never happen. In fact he mentions that he's still interested in doing it for a modern a system if possible.
In all honestly, Vic does talk a big game. Not sure he would have done all of those titles regardless, but it was confirmed that at E3 1997, the event where Stolar pissed him off, he had posters up advertising the shooter packs.
|
|
|
Post by darkman01 on Sept 30, 2017 10:07:32 GMT
Was wondering what region you were in Darkman. PAL/Europe region generally seemed to have gotten the shortest end of the stick. Even in North America we still didn't compare to Japan. I had no idea you guys didn't even get basic stuff like Xenogears and Chrono Cross? Before FFVII, even in the US companies didn't think RPGs were mainstream. Then after that, tons of them flooded over. Bernie Stolar got a lot of guff for being anti-RPG but Holy Ark, SFIII, Panzer Saga were the most one could really expect. Even though Albert Odyssey and Magic Knight Rayearth weren't knockout titles, it was still nice WD brought them out late to give the library some diversity. From what I've gathered from Vic Ireland himself, had Sega not pissed him off at E3 1997 he was looking at doing - TENGAI MAKYO THE APOCALYPSE IV - Sakura Wars - Thunderforce V - Blast Wind/Hyper Duel pack - Lunar Silver Star And Grandia was too expensive for the rights, so it seemed he was hoping Sega would license it and contract them for the translation. Vic also said when I asked him, he really wanted to do all 3 parts of Shining Force III but knew it would never happen. In fact he mentions that he's still interested in doing it for a modern a system if possible. In all honestly, Vic does talk a big game. Not sure he would have done all of those titles regardless, but it was confirmed that at E3 1997, the event where Stolar pissed him off, he had posters up advertising the shooter packs. no Xenogears or Chrono Cross, or even the first Parasite Eve (2nd did get released though), Square never released any of the main FF games for either the NES or SNES (ie , no FF6) , no Chrono Trigger either (some of these did get PAL releases on the PS1 later on), the only one I can think of was Secret of Mana , which did see a PAL release, quite expensive nowadays though. as for Stolar, I was always of two differing opinions, the gamer in me laments his ideas , but then one has to look at things as he saw them in 1997. RPGs were not big sellers unless they were called Final Fantasy, 2D games were getting trashed by many gamers (unless it was something by Capcom), and the Saturn wasn't taking off , so while I think he was clumsy , I can't entirely blame him. Not to mention Sega Europe didnt act much better for the very same reasons. honestly I don't think most people who work at Sega now , know what Shining Force is sadly.
|
|
|
Post by xDerekRx on Oct 1, 2017 3:01:43 GMT
Wow, Ill never complain again about games not coming to the US as PAL regions got really screwed on some classic RPGs it sounds like. I never knew that.
Getting back to Stolar quick. Sega of Japan most likely was in control when he took over. He was just there to make business decisions and release the Dreamcast.
Even though people say he hated 2D and RPGs, I think he just cared about what sells, nothing more. Under his last year in the US we got Mega Man x4, Mega Man 8, Albert Odyssey, Magic Knight Rayearth, Saturn Bomberman, Shining Force 3, Holy Ark, PDS... All 2D or RPG.
So I always think that part of his legacy was a myth... spread by Working Designs oddly enough. I love them but I always thought Vic was more of an emotional artist than a true business guy. He took that stuff too personal. Should have just released his stuff for the fans.
We should do a Working Designs/RPG thread in the Light Gun forum. Always a good discussion.
|
|
|
Post by darkman01 on Oct 1, 2017 12:45:20 GMT
Wow, Ill never complain again about games not coming to the US as PAL regions got really screwed on some classic RPGs it sounds like. I never knew that. Getting back to Stolar quick. Sega of Japan most likely was in control when he took over. He was just there to make business decisions and release the Dreamcast. Even though people say he hated 2D and RPGs, I think he just cared about what sells, nothing more. Under his last year in the US we got Mega Man x4, Mega Man 8, Albert Odyssey, Magic Knight Rayearth, Saturn Bomberman, Shining Force 3, Holy Ark, PDS... All 2D or RPG. So I always think that part of his legacy was a myth... spread by Working Designs oddly enough. I love them but I always thought Vic was more of an emotional artist than a true business guy. He took that stuff too personal. Should have just released his stuff for the fans. We should do a Working Designs/RPG thread in the Light Gun forum. Always a good discussion. funny enough MM8 , MMX4 , Magic Knight Rayearth and Albert Odyssey never got PAL releases either, at least to my knowledge. I think that while Stolar (and the general management at Sega) could have managed the Saturn final year better, I can't entirely blame them , the Saturn wasn't taking off , and even Nintendo was humbled by Sony . apparently at some point, Sega Europe and Capcom were in talks to release X-men vs Street Fighter bundled with a RAM cart, but they couldn't agree on the price. Oddly enough KOF95 did see a PAL release, bundled with the ROM cart.
|
|
|
Post by xDerekRx on Oct 2, 2017 7:02:58 GMT
Wow, Ill never complain again about games not coming to the US as PAL regions got really screwed on some classic RPGs it sounds like. I never knew that. Getting back to Stolar quick. Sega of Japan most likely was in control when he took over. He was just there to make business decisions and release the Dreamcast. Even though people say he hated 2D and RPGs, I think he just cared about what sells, nothing more. Under his last year in the US we got Mega Man x4, Mega Man 8, Albert Odyssey, Magic Knight Rayearth, Saturn Bomberman, Shining Force 3, Holy Ark, PDS... All 2D or RPG. So I always think that part of his legacy was a myth... spread by Working Designs oddly enough. I love them but I always thought Vic was more of an emotional artist than a true business guy. He took that stuff too personal. Should have just released his stuff for the fans. We should do a Working Designs/RPG thread in the Light Gun forum. Always a good discussion. funny enough MM8 , MMX4 , Magic Knight Rayearth and Albert Odyssey never got PAL releases either, at least to my knowledge. I think that while Stolar (and the general management at Sega) could have managed the Saturn final year better, I can't entirely blame them , the Saturn wasn't taking off , and even Nintendo was humbled by Sony . apparently at some point, Sega Europe and Capcom were in talks to release X-men vs Street Fighter bundled with a RAM cart, but they couldn't agree on the price. Oddly enough KOF95 did see a PAL release, bundled with the ROM cart. I believe Virgin or some company like that was trying to bring out Xmen vs SF in Europe, it wasn't Capcom directly. Capcom also initially announced Xmen vs. SF for a US release but later cancelled. And yes you are correct, MM8, MMx4, MKR, AO and Iron Storm did not see a PAL release. All of those are nice titles too. On the flip side oddly enough we didnt get MMx3 in the US if that makes any sense lol
|
|
|
Post by darkman01 on Oct 2, 2017 11:33:37 GMT
funny enough MM8 , MMX4 , Magic Knight Rayearth and Albert Odyssey never got PAL releases either, at least to my knowledge. I think that while Stolar (and the general management at Sega) could have managed the Saturn final year better, I can't entirely blame them , the Saturn wasn't taking off , and even Nintendo was humbled by Sony . apparently at some point, Sega Europe and Capcom were in talks to release X-men vs Street Fighter bundled with a RAM cart, but they couldn't agree on the price. Oddly enough KOF95 did see a PAL release, bundled with the ROM cart. I believe Virgin or some company like that was trying to bring out Xmen vs SF in Europe, it wasn't Capcom directly. Capcom also initially announced Xmen vs. SF for a US release but later cancelled. And yes you are correct, MM8, MMx4, MKR, AO and Iron Storm did not see a PAL release. All of those are nice titles too. On the flip side oddly enough we didnt get MMx3 in the US if that makes any sense lol well , Virgin did publish the PAL version of SFA3 on the PS1, so you may be right about that one, Capcom worked with Eidos as well for several games, While some of Eidos' games were published by Capcom in Japan. Quite a common practice back in the day , its probably why FF7 got a PAL release , as it was published by Sony themselves. Europe doesn't always get screwed, there are certainly games that make it to Europe and not the US (Terranigma on the SNES for instance, or the PS1 version of Earthworm Jim 2). Though in general PAL regions often did get the short end of the stick. Of course at the time alot of people simply weren't aware of games they were missing out on , or the whole 50hz nonsense, we kind of just assumed games looked like that.
|
|
|
Post by xDerekRx on Oct 3, 2017 9:07:14 GMT
I believe Virgin or some company like that was trying to bring out Xmen vs SF in Europe, it wasn't Capcom directly. Capcom also initially announced Xmen vs. SF for a US release but later cancelled. And yes you are correct, MM8, MMx4, MKR, AO and Iron Storm did not see a PAL release. All of those are nice titles too. On the flip side oddly enough we didnt get MMx3 in the US if that makes any sense lol Europe doesn't always get screwed, there are certainly games that make it to Europe and not the US (Terranigma on the SNES for instance, or the PS1 version of Earthworm Jim 2). Though in general PAL regions often did get the short end of the stick. Definitely, there were a handful of games we didnt get that came out in PAL, especially a few on PS1. But you are also correct, it seemed to be the other way around the majority of the time. The Saturn PAL and US libraries were mostly the same and we have discussed it alot on here. Id say the US got a slight edge over PAL still (as mentioned MM8, MMx4, MKR, AO, Astla and Iron Storm etc) but there were some neat releases that PAL got that we didn't like Keio 2 and of course a physical copy of Deep Fear.
|
|