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Post by wardy on Dec 23, 2007 11:14:55 GMT
I apologise for double-posting.
Anyway, another blow against the Saturn and the perception that it had inferior looking games when compared to a Playstation or Nintendo 64 was that many of the Saturn's US released were pretty awful compared to the Japanese and UK/EU releases.
Sega Rally and Virtua Fighter 2 were massivley inferior as US releases when compared to the versions the other territories received.
Don't forget that Sega neglected the Saturn from inception, with many horrible injustices carried out by its own father against it. Still, at least it was popular in Japan (games were released as recently as Q1 2002 such as Final Fight Revenge, despite the fact that game is dated as 1999/2000 though most others were Mahjong and Hentai titles from what I gather).
Incidentally, it is evident that there are currently more Saturn owners worldwide than Playstation owners, so our playground arguments back in 1995 were not in vain after all ...
=P
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Post by saturnworship on Dec 23, 2007 14:10:02 GMT
"Incidentally, it is evident that there are currently more Saturn owners worldwide than Playstation owners, so our playground arguments back in 1995 were not in vain after all ... "
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?
Explain that men... because it sounds crazy.
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mick_aka
Kickin' it lively!
"Mick is moderately adequate."
Joined: April 2007
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Post by mick_aka on Dec 23, 2007 14:22:03 GMT
I think he is refering to owners of original Playstation (PSX) consoles as opposed to Playstation in general.
The vast percentage of Playstation owners ditched their hardware when the PS2 launched so in fairness it's probably quite accurate, I know one, maybe 2 people with original PSX hardware.
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Post by wardy on Dec 23, 2007 14:27:59 GMT
Well, this is at least a half-truth, and I will gladly explain ... your worship ...
=P
Anyway, every games player I knew (apart from a couple of exceptions who owned a Saturn) owned a Playstation back in the day, but eventually tired of them and either got a Nintendo 64, Dreamcast, or Playsation 2.
There seem to be an enormous amount of second-hand Playstations in circulation which never sell, and in instances where I have worked in conjunction with a retailer of whom dealt in "retro" (their phrase, not mine I hasten to add), they almost always shifted more Saturn games, consoles, and related merchandise.
Interest in Sega's Saturn skyrocketed around 2002 - 2004 (which I, possibly rather unethically, capitalised on and made a killing through an eccentric sales pitch which sold me countless copies of rubbish like Virtual Hydlide and Trash It) and Playstation ceased to be.
In terms of people who appreciate games for gameplay, ingenious design, and romantic imagination (such as myself), they tend to hang on to consoles such as Super NES and of course Sega Saturn while more people with a fringe interest in the medium owned a Playstation as it wasn't often a remarkable game came out for it (it sold because of the ridiculous volume of dog-awful third party games that formed 90% of what it had at the very least, and because the Playstation rags were everywhere throwing some really rather immature and abhorrent abuse at anybody who even accidentally LOOKED at a Saturn ... much like Nintendo Wii) so their sense of political correctness wasn't challenged, plus there was a lot of this brown/grey/souless dross to chose from.
Saying that, I own some cracking games on my Playstation, but not many, and I can't think of any others I'd genuinley want to be honest (I own around 20 - 25 Playstation games or something).
Fanboyism doesn't help people's perception either (Playstation 3 sells about 40% of what X-Box 360 does, and Nintendo Wii sells about 20% more units than the Microsoft effort) with Sony's delusional promo-staff, Nintendo's mind-blowingly patronising so-sweet-it-gave-me-diabetes TV spots, and Microsoft's consoles both being unreliable being ignored because the image portrayed is worth more than the games that potential consumers buy.
I hate videogames these days ...
~_~
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Post by saturnworship on Dec 23, 2007 16:20:10 GMT
Well well well, now i understand.
But let's say 3 points:
1.People threw their PS1 because they can play their PS1 games in their PS2. (but anyways, i agree with you in the fact that 90% of the saturn owners were hardcore gamers pre 1998 that really love their console, most of the people that bought the PS1 were techno ravers etc to play GRAN TURISMO and tune their cars, that game was the death for arcade games).
2.Men, SEGA would have killed for some games on the PSX line-up, ok, i like more the Sega Saturn franchises, but, hey, Sega wanted BioHazard 2 and Metal Gear on Saturn, but they were scrapped down.
The most important thing, 50% of Sega (sega of america of course) never liked the Saturn, and most Sega decisions concerning that console were simply RETARDED.
What would have happened if Saturn was released 1 year after with launch titles SEGA RALLY, VIRTUA FIGHTER 2, SONIC X-TREME, a GREAT DAYTONA USA for 100$ less and with a FREE VIRTUA FIGHTER 1 with the console??
Everything for that console was made in a hurry, just look at clockwork night, if the 2 efforts were made onto 1 and a little more polished, we would have got a TOP PLATFORM game ever!
Anyway, i was out of consoles from 2002 to 2007 , and i didn't knew of the Saturn hype, but then i faced games about 150$ on ebay, and i said...whoa!!!!!!
Never knew a lot of games i'm already discovering now..etcetcet..
But the main fact for the unreleased saturn games thing is that now those pieces of history (and hope in the past, the most important) can be seen or can be hunted down, and that's basically something to look for.
More Sonic X-treme proto (96 e3 thing).,..Shenmue Saturn (that's headshot for old saturn blamer retards).. and of course VIRTUA FIGHTER 3 alongside with SONIC the Fighters are holy grails for every Sega Saturn maniac.
Please, wardy, you seem a really hardcore saturn fan, tell me more about what you know of virtua fighter 3 for the saturn, did you EVER see images?
Hey the chick on your signature is ultra cool!
P.D= Sorry for the messed english , i'm writing in a hurry now, and for everyone that reads, tell that my saturn community video project stays going on.
SEGA SATURN RESISTANCE!!!!!! TORA TORA TORA!!!!!!!
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Post by wardy on Dec 23, 2007 19:00:38 GMT
The Virtua Fighter 3 footage was available on a free demo disc, but it was about 5 years ago now the last time I watched it and I can't remember where it's from since a friend owned it and despite recently selling most of his Saturn stuff to me, wasn't able to find the discs he had that weren't in cases (of which that was one of them).
Anyway, it was a rolling tech demo that was displayed along with Last Bronx, Sega Touring Car, and something else but I forget.
Something of interest was that the Sega Touring Car demo had higher resolution graphics and better fram rate the the finished version of the game (although since the game was being viewed from particular angles, I imagine that they only had to render those particular parts at any one time so they could get it up to arcade quality).
I think there may have been a screen shot in an issue of SSM, so I might look it up when I get the motivation to sift through my old video games magazines.
As for everything being rushed ... well, Sega released the Saturn a whole year before they did in American and European territories, and could have done a great job, but it all boils down to SOA squandering a lot of money, and the fact there were ENORMOUS internal disputes between marketing and managerial staff at that time.
As for the girl on my display pic ? She paints herself like a mudkip, too =D !
fyi - you have better written English than most English people, so don't apologise about it =)
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Post by saturnworship on Dec 23, 2007 21:04:22 GMT
That footage you say is footage from the arcade. not saturn. i got in on one sega flash demo.
That you call the Sega Touring Car demo was in fact the arcade version, the same as above.
Well, it's said 100000 times, Saturn lacked Sega's mascot, and now seems Sonic is long forever gone...
If Sonic X-treme could have been released along with Nights... that was the key..
Anyways, i hope someday we will see more Saturn Shenmue Footage and some VF3 or Sonic The Fighters footage, because those 3 were supposed to be nuclear.
Now i'm gonna watch the shenmue video again and play virtua fighter 2 and grandia. what a night! haha!
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Post by Gareth on Jan 2, 2008 20:25:18 GMT
Tantalus was an incompetent studio. The abortion that they call Manx TT Superbikes was in my Saturn for about 20 seconds before I took it out and sold it. The shit textures, the popup, abysmal polygon count... such an insult to even release a game in that state, and a game that I had such fond memories of too having played it nearly every night in a pub on the Isle of Man in '97 I think. Alien Trilogy was another insult to be honest. You could run faster than the bullets that were shot from your gun. It was no surprise at all to find that the whole game ran on one processor - that "myst" effect they had going on there resulted in a draw distance of about 2 meters. For quality programming (and indeed transparencies), take a look at Sonic R. Exhumed also has good transparency on the floating ammo/health icons (sprites) though the polygon water IIRC featured the mesh-effect. Still, the blistering frame-rates and lighting effects that not even the PC versions had on their games (Exhumed, Quake and Duke Nukem) more than make up for that. Check out this post for more info: segasaturngroup.proboards81.com/index.cgi?board=youtube&action=display&thread=1199305716
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Post by wardy on Jan 3, 2008 18:19:37 GMT
Bugger, I thought that was Saturn footage for years =(
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retrovision
A.K.A. betamax52
Joined: December 2007
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Post by retrovision on Feb 4, 2008 20:55:14 GMT
While there's no denying just how poor the first WipEout is... Am I the only person here who liked the Saturn version of Wipeout better than the PSX version?(Although I think both of them pale in comparison to Wipeout 64.)
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mick_aka
Kickin' it lively!
"Mick is moderately adequate."
Joined: April 2007
Posts: 9,817
Location:
XBL: mickloaf
PSN: mickloaf
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Post by mick_aka on Feb 4, 2008 22:23:29 GMT
(Although I think both of them pale in comparison to Wipeout 64.) Get your coat.
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Post by ShenmueAddict on Feb 5, 2008 2:25:06 GMT
While there's no denying just how poor the first WipEout is... Am I the only person here who liked the Saturn version of Wipeout better than the PSX version?(Although I think both of them pale in comparison to Wipeout 64.) Agree it is better than PSX Disagree that N64 version is better , the music on the saturn version is so good i used to blast it out in my car!!!!!!!
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Post by Anthaemia. on Feb 6, 2008 15:39:12 GMT
So you're a fan of the CoLD SToRAGE tunes as well, then? Also, in regard to the arcade footage of Sega Touring Car, Virtua Fighter 3 and Last Bronx on the Sega Flash Vol. 4 demo disc, has anybody else noticed that much of the character demonstration footage of Last Bronx was captured from a coin-op screen with a video camera? Just look at the wireframe background and how it blurs TV-style for the only evidence you'll ever need to prove this! Honestly, who expected better from an official Sega product? That's probably around the exact time standards in general were beginning to slip within the company!
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Post by chizzles on Feb 13, 2008 22:27:46 GMT
I think the problem is a lot of people say that the Saturn could do transparencies, in reality, the Saturn by itself cannot even do texturing. The Saturn is mainly CPU based, with no real GPU, in theory, the PS2 runs on a similar basis. They can't do anything unless they are told how to do it. However if you tell them how to do it right, they do it well
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Post by termis on Feb 14, 2008 5:56:23 GMT
...many of the Saturn's US released were pretty awful compared to the Japanese and UK/EU releases. Sega Rally and Virtua Fighter 2 were massivley inferior as US releases when compared to the versions the other territories received. Wardy, where do you keep on hearing these things about US saturn items of x and y being inferior to other versions? (You had thought that US mk2 hardware didn't play certain JP games before, and now many of the US software is supposedly "massively" inferior to JP _and_ EU versions?!) I can understand US-JP comparisons for a *handfull* of games, but the issues that make the certain US versions inferior to the JP version is almost always present in the PAL version as well (i.e. missing Pepsiman in Fighting Vipers, crappier controls of Daytona CCE). I don't know about Sega Rally, but I own both US & JP versions of VF2, and there isn't something I can readily tell apart between the two releases. As a matter of fact, I'd think that the EU releases that were fixed to 50Hz such as VF2 and Sega Rally would be the ones to avoid, as the optimization process involves messing around with the original game engine/resolution (which was originally intended for NTSC) to get rid of the borders & speed issues.
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