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Post by chizzles on Oct 28, 2008 21:31:00 GMT
I saw a video on youtube recently, a video of a string of Saturn games that were being released... and the footage "from" Virtua Fighter is clearly from the model 1 version.
How can you be sure from a VHS that it was running on a Saturn without official confirmation from SEGA?
They could still have been mock-ups...
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Post by Anthaemia. on Oct 29, 2008 4:31:06 GMT
I presume you're referring to the footage of Virtua Fighter included as part of the extended US launch advert for the Saturn, which also featured some of the Clockwork Knight and Victory Goal prototypes? If so, then you are correct to assume the VF portion comes from the Model 1 version. However, the high resolution Daytona build is definitely genuine because it was being shown quite frequently before the Saturn's release in Japan - not to mention the fact a screenshot was printed in SSM as part of a showcase on the development of Championship Circuit Edition. As I've mentioned before, this early code was the result of little-known AM2 resident master programmer, Keiji Okayasu. The only reason so many corners were cut in the end product is simply because the development team didn't have enough time to optimise his original work, as the frame rate would have taken a considerable hit if the actual courses were to be of comparable quality to the detailed Hornet car displayed. Ultimately, the decision was made to sacrifice geometry, speed and resolution. Sega Rally was a huge improvement, but due to the way it had been constructed for Saturn there was never really any way AM3 could put together something of a similar level because the Daytona preview had never really been intended for a commercial project. In other words, those involved were just testing the water (so to speak) and learning about the limitations of Sega's latest platform before seriously dedicating resources to anything.
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Post by chizzles on Oct 29, 2008 11:20:21 GMT
So in short... you are saying it was just a tech demo? I guess there was no chance of Hi-Res Daytona at all then... ever - not with playable speed and frame rate Ah well, at least Model 2 emulation is pretty much perfect now. (For Daytona, anyway) Even in just raw geometry processing, the Model 1 board absolutely kills the Saturn...
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Post by Anthaemia. on Oct 29, 2008 19:55:02 GMT
I don't think it's absolutely correct to say the high resolution build of Daytona USA was intended purely as a tech demo, but it was definitely created with the hope of previewing the Saturn's capabilities (yet still prior to actual development on the platform's conversion starting, it should be added). Keiji Okayasu was asking a lot from his colleagues to reproduce such quality visuals pixel-for-pixel within a short production schedule, so it's hardly surprising the end product featured so many graphical compromises! However, with enough time it's been suggested AM2 could easily have recreated this early vision a lot more faithully - much like how Clockwork Knight, Victory Goal and Panzer Dragoon may have been closer to their prototype forms with a little extra time spent on them. At least the majority of later Saturn games raised the proverbial bar, though again we'll forget about The House Of The Dead as it seems to be the only notable example to this rule... unless we can discount the use of placeholder textures and unoptimised load breaks in a commercially released project, right?
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Post by chizzles on Oct 29, 2008 21:08:48 GMT
I hope you would not want Panzer Dragoon to look like "Emerald Dragon" (The nickname given to the first proto shots of Panzer Dragoon released)...
That game looks so bland and lacking any artistic style :-P
Although it has been pointed out that the Dragonmares in Orta look rather like the Emerald Dragon (albeit more... orange).
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Post by Anthaemia. on Oct 29, 2008 22:00:36 GMT
There were actually two different Panzer Dragoon prototypes, and I have a feeling you used the phrase "Emerald Dragon" when referring to the more common 32X version that was featured in magazines and video footage prior to the Saturn's launch. I was actually hoping to raise discussion of the later build running on the same workstation as the Soccer (Victory Goal) and Knight (Clockwork Knight) tech demos - if you're not familiar with this I suggest you check out the introduction sequence of Panzer Dragoon as it contains many elements of the original SGI source... well, it would considering the platform it was rendered on!
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Post by saturnworship on Nov 1, 2008 22:46:00 GMT
there's any place where i can see old panzer dragoon footage??
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Post by saturnworship on Nov 1, 2008 23:08:40 GMT
anthaemia in wich SSM was shown that daytona usa footage??
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Post by chizzles on Nov 2, 2008 0:08:57 GMT
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Post by saturnworship on Nov 2, 2008 12:47:03 GMT
thanks a LOT for the pics chizzles...
well, keep in mind that was done maybe in fall 1993/ early 1994... and that's AWESOME for those days..
of course silicone graphic's demo is far superior..but the resolution and smooth shown there maybe is really interesting..
does there are any chances to see a video?
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Post by Anthaemia. on Nov 2, 2008 16:35:01 GMT
I'm certain the issue with that prototype screenshot was #12, but without my SSM collection to have I might be wrong. However, it was definitely part of a showcase looking at Championship Circuit Edition, and I seem to recall this issue featuring the game on its cover. Anyway, it's always good to see those "Dragon" pictures again - thanks for that!
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sonix
Sega Saturn FTW!
Joined: March 2008
Posts: 938
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Post by sonix on Nov 2, 2008 20:05:14 GMT
Anthaemia, are you talking about this screenshot?
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Post by Anthaemia. on Nov 3, 2008 1:16:04 GMT
That's it, thanks!
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Post by chizzles on Nov 3, 2008 9:06:31 GMT
That explains everything then, the floor is just a flat VDP floor effect... You would not need to be a master programmer to get that running on a Saturn... the car is the only geometry on the screen
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Post by Anthaemia. on Nov 3, 2008 21:42:01 GMT
As someone who has seen the Daytona prototype in action, I can tell you there was a lot more to it than just a detailed vehicle and Mode 7-style floor effect. In fact, the course as I remember it was more like the 32X tech demo of Panzer Dragoon, featuring low-polygon rocks and the odd sprite for trees. However, what really stood out (for me, at least) were the blurred textures on all but the Hornet itself. This footage really needs to be made available to greater numbers, as it's an incredible showcase of the Saturn's capabilities. Had the powers that be given Keiji Okayasu time to made his graphical showcase a full commercial project, Daytona wouldn't have looked arcade-perfect - or, then again, maybe it would? What it would have gained was a superior frame rate and presumably resolution, opening the floodgates to much better successors. Then again, I'm not complaining about the version of Daytona we ultimately got or Sega Rally, for that matter! On further reflection, I can't help feeling this might not have been genuine Saturn footage after all. For example, can the system really handle real time bi-linear filtering? How else can you explain the N64-like appearance of floor and trackside textures? Come to think of it, if the N64 had this kind of effect in its array of capabilities perhaps the Daytona prototype was running on the early Silicon Graphics architecture that Nintendo later picked up for its console? Less realistically, could the low quality simply be a result of sourcing images from a video of the demo? Yeah, right - it's probably best to disregard that last possibility...
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