brianseals
Saturn Gamer
Joined: May 2015
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Post by brianseals on Jun 27, 2015 1:32:42 GMT
Let me explain myself here. "Guardian Heroes" was one of my first purchases, when I bought my Sega Saturn at the end of 2012.I had heard high praise regarding it, and I'm a fan of 2D beat-em-ups. I really enjoy the genre. I got the Japanese version of the game, as I found the NTSC version was well over a hundred dollars (63.50 British Pounds / 89.54 Euros). I didn't figure the language barrier would be a big deal. I mean, it's a beat-em-up, why would it be? Anyway, I did fire it up and play it for awhile. It was okay, but my Saturn is plugged into an HD TV, and high definition isn't kind to 90's sprites. Flash forward to today. I did go ahead and purchase an upscaler for my Saturn, and the improved visuals is great (I'll post about that at a later date.) So I gave Guardian Heroes another shot, and honestly I don't get it. What's the deal with all of the text? It's pretty lippy for an action game. I can't read Japanese, so I can't get anything from it, but if it was in English, would I stop and read it all? Not unless it's spectacular, and maybe it is, but games like this are at their best when they're played with a friend. No way would I sit some one down for a co-op session, with this game. I barely have the patience to scroll through all of this stuff, let alone ask someone else to. And then there was the gameplay. It's alright, but it doesn't blow my socks off, or make up for all the dialogue I have to skip, a button press at a time.That whole gimmick, that allows you to jump between three different planes, it seems cooler as a concept than it is in the game. It just seems tacked on and unnecessary, and I'm not sure the game utilizes it for anything fun. I played the big blonde guy with the sword at first. I like his moves, but then he wants to pose like an idiot, whenever he knocks someone down. Hello? The fight isn't over here! Magician girl was next and playing her left me lukewarm. The ninja in green was the last one I tried. His moves are okay, but I was put off of the game at this point, and he didn't do anything to make me change my mind. What do you all think of "Guardian Heroes"? Are there any other hyped games for the Saturn, that have disappointed you?  |
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Post by redtail on Jun 27, 2015 3:15:07 GMT
I'd avoid Han. He's slow and powerful, but not very interesting. Nicole is supposed to be the healer, but her barrier is the most OP attack in the entire game. She's totally broken, IMO. Ginjirou and Randy chain lots of physical attacks together. Randy also has a ton of strong magic, and it's quite easy to quickly replenish his mana. The unlockable character Serena has a good mix of physical and magic attacks. She's fun to play as too.
The text explains the story and then lets you choose your path through the game. Depending on which options you choose, you'll visit different locations, fight different enemies, and end up with different endings (there's quite a few of them). It gives the game some extra replay value.
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Post by Oho on Jun 27, 2015 3:59:18 GMT
So I own this game on both the Saturn and on XBLA. The story on the Saturn version feels like it was converted from Japanese to English by someone whose English wasn't very strong. It's never really apparent until you play the version on the Xbox 360.
As redtail said - different locations, different endings and an unlockable character gives this game a lot of replayability.
But man, if you don't like the gameplay - you don't like the gameplay. It was one of the first games I played on the console when I got mine back in 2009 and I loved it straight away. You might also not like the style of presentation as well. In which case, nothing anyone says is going to change that. If you don't "get it", that's fine. Not every one "gets" Dave Matthew Band either (myself included) and some people eat that shit up like a fat kid at Sizzler.
You shouldn't feel pressured to like or hate any game. One thing I've noticed while reviewing the Saturn library is we're all not going to see eye to eye on some games. There has been one or 2 games I know off the top of my head I was particularly harsh on and really didn't like even though popular opinion dictates the opposite. But then the flip side to that is I liked the Crow (as much as someone possibly can) and Off-World Interceptor Extreme and a lot of people don't.
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NeoGeoNinja
Shadow Warrior
Joined: August 2011
Posts: 6,616
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Post by NeoGeoNinja on Jun 27, 2015 9:50:31 GMT
Hi Brian. Just to spare myself some repetition, I thought it would be 'fun' to go back and dig through my general opinion of Guardian Heroes, from over the years... - I for one, don't particularly champion Guardian Heroes' existence, and I've had it way longer than before eBay started dictating it's 'popularity'.
It's a fun game, but not particularly nice to look at, nasty 'plane' based gameplay and terribly messy in the gameplay department imo, although I will admit, there is a decent amount of depth there.
I really enjoy this game, however, I don't think it's anywhere near this untouchable masterpiece PPL make out.
And yes, I know this puts ME in the minority too ;D Thread: segasaturngroup.proboards.com/post/59582/thread- I too, will never understand the hype and praise behind this game. It's not a good RPG and it's not a good beat-em up either! Maybe it's great at catering for PPL who have an attachment to neither then? (i.e. the wider audience??) 
Don't get me wrong, I don't think the game is sh*t, or terrible or anything of the like. I think it's decent, but nowhere near worthy of all the 'universal' acclaim it seems to garner imo. Also, I don't get what the deal is with the gfx either. I've never thought GH a pretty game tbh... Thread: segasaturngroup.proboards.com/post/78083/thread- Don't ever get caught up in the positives and negatives of others opinions. Just get the game, play it and decide for yourself.
Personally, as a beat em up, I think it lacks significantly... However, if you like action RPGs, this might work for you better. If you like action RPGs, you might find this an exciting diversion etc.
But, I'll stick to Cadillacs and Dinosaurs and Captain Commando myself...  Thread: segasaturngroup.proboards.com/post/104773/thread- Overrated or greatest of all time? Hmmm.
I would feel inclined to lean towards overrated, however, as has been said already, this isn't to say that they don't make some amazing games.
My personal Treasure faves are Gradius V, Ikaruga and Sin and Punishment 2. Treasure titles I've played that I didn't rate or 'get' would include:
Mischief Makers - dull, boring, uninspired platformer that -as usual with treasure - relies so heavily on one core mechanic to get by. Bored after 10 mins, Marina.
Guardian Heroes - just feels like a big mess when I'm playing it. Not to mention, not a fan of the plane system. Feels too restricting. GFX are horrible too. Pixelated gash!
Gunstar Heroes - a good run n gun shooter hampered by the controls IMO. It has the right ingredients, but the 3 button set up hurts this one for me vs (for example) playing Contra III on SNES. Those extra buttons really open the feeling of control over your character IMO vs picking Red or Blue for certain control aspects.
Radiant Silvergun - bit too long in the tooth for my liking. It lumbers along, much like Silpheed on PS2 does. Really not a fan of the overall puzzle-cum-chain element of the game either. Much more overbearing than it was in Ikaruga IMO.
Silpheed - I think Yart summed this one up well enough. Chicken bone to the throat muthaf*ckers! And... I hope it pierces the skin upon swallow!
Silhouette Mirage - hmmm. Gave this one some time but the game did its best to uninvited me in. Typically Japanese westernly xenophobic effort. Congratulations... As I don't f*cking get it!
That'll do for now Thread: segasaturngroup.proboards.com/post/104780/thread- Hopefully, that should just about cover it. FWIW, I haven't played the game in some years now. Having being saturated in current gen stuff etc, my opinion may have 'softened' a little by now. May have softened. May... |
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sych
"Living for the fantasy" -NIGHTS INTO DREAMS- The Classic Saturn Gem!!!
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Post by sych on Jun 27, 2015 10:27:03 GMT
As many have said the story is a big part of Guardian Heroes USP. It's what sets Guardian Heroes apart from the rest of the beat 'em' ups. It brings you into their world. So really if you're not following the story and making imformed choices on the multiple paths to take in later levels, there's really no point playing it as you will end up frustrated as there's an abundance of text. Even though its co-op, I actually prefer playing this on my own than with another person. Less chaotic.
The fighting planes are very useful against big boss characters that shoot devasting lasers across the screen, they're the best way to dodge projectile attacks. I tend to plane dance when I'm low on health then change the settings on my Yellow Sword fighting friend and get him to protect me
I don't like Han either. Too slow for me. Try Ginjirou or Serena. Ginjirou is awesome.
Personally I think purchasing the JPN version was an error as I couldn't imagine enjoying the game without following the story. It would just be an empty and hollow experience. But each to their own of course.
If you're looking for a quick pick up, button-bash and play beat 'em' ups stick to Die Hard Arcade or try Tenchi wo Kurau 2 or Nekketsu Oyako. There's just too much depth in Guardian Heroes for it to be enjoyed lightly
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brianseals
Saturn Gamer
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 126
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Post by brianseals on Jun 27, 2015 12:41:14 GMT
redtail: I would think that having multiple characters to choose from, would lend itself to replayability, without the story hook. But now that you've said that, I get what they were going for. Oho: I had a good laugh at your analogy, but you're right, 100%. I don't think it's a bad game, by any stretch, but that doesn't mean I'll agree with the popular opinion. I often don't, anyway. NeoGeoNinja: Hey man. I really appreciate the effort you put into your response. It was a great read, and I nodded in agreement with a lot of the comments. Regarding the graphics though, I'm not quite where you were, when you posted about it back then. I've never played the game on a CRT, so I don't know how it looks on one; in HD it looked ugly as sin, but I never blamed the game for that. I put a '95 console under a modern LCD, and I knew full well what I was doing. Some games looked good, some looked okay and some were eyesores; that's just a part of the territory. I had always planned to clean up the image quality at a later date, and I am doing that now. Just a quick breakdown: I'm currently using a small box to upscale the image from composite to VGA, and then running that image through a scanline generator. That will soon be S-Video to VGA, using the same box, but the difference from just composite earlier, is night and day. I know nothing about your setup, and if you just don't like the sprites that's fine, but imo they clean up well. sych: I definitely agree with you. I do have Die Hard Arcade, and it is fun, but it's set in 3D, so it isn't the same kind of experience. I think NeoGeoNinja nailed it, as far as the mix of genres here. All of the text just slows the game down and ruins the pace. As always, if you're gonna have a full detailed story, allow your players to skip all of it if they want to, quickly and easily, even if it means they miss out on a good chunk of the experience. Thanks for the character advice, but I'll just put it down for now. I'm not motivated to get an English copy, or a guide, so I'll just wait until I've learned Japanese. 
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Post by tempest on Jul 1, 2015 5:52:10 GMT
In my opinion, Guardian Heroes is a highly overrated game. At the time it was certainly innovative with the heavy story elements, multiple characters who level up as the game progresses, multiple planes, and so on. The story really opened up and gave character to the world for me, even if the story itself was very generic.
Where the game falls down, in my opinion, is the simplistic and repetitive gameplay. I never got to play it with friends though, which might be where it excels.
I love the cheesy game's soundtrack.
Certainly worth trying, but it's not worth the prices it fetches on ebay.
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Post by buckoa51 on Jul 1, 2015 9:06:46 GMT
I thought the idea of the planes was pretty genius and I'm surprised more games didn't copy it. It allows for a much deeper fighting system because you aren't walking up and down between the front and back of the screen, which leaves the full range of joystick movement for fighting, like in a traditional 2D fighting game.
Like all brawlers it can get pretty chaotic but I always found it fun, then again I'm certainly no authority on fighting games.
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NeoGeoNinja
Shadow Warrior
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Post by NeoGeoNinja on Jul 1, 2015 13:43:34 GMT
It allows for a much deeper fighting system because you aren't walking up and down between the front and back of the screen, which leaves the full range of joystick movement for fighting, like in a traditional 2D fighting game Hmmm. Good point. |
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Post by xDerekRx on Aug 9, 2015 7:20:20 GMT
If you're looking for a quick pick up, button-bash and play beat 'em' ups stick to Die Hard Arcade or try Tenchi wo Kurau 2 or Nekketsu Oyako. There's just too much depth in Guardian Heroes for it to be enjoyed lightly This. Back when Guardian Heroes came out, it was unreal. I cant even explain it. The colors, the multiple stories, the crazy battle arena with the largest roster you could ever imagine. The game just had it all. I feel alot of people who arent keen on it are those playing it for the first time in the modern era. Because Id say when I was played through it again on the Saturn with a friend in 2011, we mostly mashed through it but I remember the fun was taking your time and really perfecting your strategy. Otherwise the game has great colors, settings, music and the plane system almost lends to needing a more strategic approach. GH isnt really like Die Hard Arcade and Streets of Rage which I think alot of people want it to be at times. Side note Dragons Crown for PS3 is a game that gave the same feels GH did back in the day. |
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segaboy8888
Lurker
Joined: August 2015
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Post by segaboy8888 on Aug 31, 2015 4:26:37 GMT
Try and enhance yourself with some magical plant and start again buddy.
that game is awesome and your childhood wasn't for not remember the epicness that is that game.
Boooo!
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Post by segaste on Sept 4, 2015 13:33:06 GMT
I didn't like it either. Can't really get into D&D Collection either (PS3 version). Always fancied playing Dragon's Crown but my dislike of GH and D&D has meant I've not tried it.
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Post by bultje112 on Sept 9, 2015 9:21:51 GMT
guardian heroes is a great game but you have to be really good at it, like virtua fighter and I'm not.
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Post by linkt101 on Sept 9, 2015 16:49:02 GMT
I wasn't too impressed with GH when I first got it, but it grew on me. I pretty much always play as Nicole. I even have a route tree printed out, which I refer to during each play through to make sure I'm taking an alternate route through the game. The only element that hasn't dated too well is the lag, which can bring gameplay to a crawl in certain spots, but what do you expect from a 32-bit system.
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Post by dtss on Sept 29, 2015 5:06:18 GMT
Just picked up a PAL copy of this game and WOW. I really glad I did! I never played this game backin the day and I'm very very impressed. Love everything about it, at first I was a bit worried about the plane system but I've found it very easy to navigate and very helpful when trying to dodge around bosses/enemies.
I also really like the ability to level up your character after each stage and having the golden knight? I think his called as your allie is awesome! Quite often in games computer controlled players don't really do much of anything to really help you, well this guy does! He definently pulls his own weight and adds a lot to the game.
As previously mentioned Brian, I couldn't imagine enjoying this game nearly as much or playing it at all in Japanese. The story line is such a huge part or the game and having alternate paths is amazing! Certainly adds a lot to the reply value of the game. Growing up as a kid I always loved the "choose your own adventure" books. This is basically the computer game version of those books and I'm really enjoying playing Guardian Heroes!
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