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Post by buckoa51 on Jun 28, 2016 10:06:21 GMT
You win the forum today, NGN
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Post by bultje112 on Jun 28, 2016 16:12:14 GMT
As with MANX TT and SEGA Touring Car (which are BOTH shit btw) you're always going to be subjected to the "You did play it with the analog controller... didn't you??" and the "it's a COMPLETELY different game with the analog controller... BELIEVE ME!?!"... but take it from someone who owns all 3 titles AND (gasp!) an analog controller. It IMPROVES the game's, slightly, but doesn't change the experience anywhere near enough to justify the revelations and comments people make. how can you say manx tt is shit? did you play it with 3d controller or steering wheel?- [Burning Rangers is] a late Saturn exclusive western release made by Sonic Team. It's VERY MUCH subject to unnecessary fanboy hype and rose-tinted, overlooking-the-flaws SEGA biasalso in general, you can move the camera's in burning rangers and it works fine imo LOL! You flew right into these flames, didn't you, my little furry SEGA Moth-like friend. So predictable... what are you talking about? I'm merely asking with what type of controller you played and in BR that you can move the camera
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Post by linkt101 on Jun 28, 2016 16:23:51 GMT
Well tbf, Manx TT sucks with the steering wheel.
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Le Roi
Saturn Gamer
Joined: April 2016
Posts: 231
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Post by Le Roi on Jun 28, 2016 20:16:51 GMT
Played through again today and I feel less offended by BR's shortcomings. Camera is still abysmal though, I can't believe people say it's fine. Agree that it's absolutely fine for a short blast and nowhere as dated as some other games in the genre.
Will try to complete it -- I've never been very good at seeing games through, but it's so short I have no excuse.
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Post by bultje112 on Jun 28, 2016 20:31:02 GMT
you can turn the camera, so what is the problem? not nearly as terrible as the camera in mario 64 I'd say
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Post by bultje112 on Jun 28, 2016 20:32:35 GMT
Well tbf, Manx TT sucks with the steering wheel. yes but with 3d controller imo is fine.
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Post by The Elite MYT on Jun 28, 2016 20:40:13 GMT
you can turn the camera, so what is the problem? not nearly as terrible as the camera in mario 64 I'd say You're not kidding. Mario 64's camera has a mind of it's own. I love the game, but it's a nightmare. Especially on levels like Rainbow Ride. But yeah, BR manual camera is fine... but it is manual. Once you learn how and when to turn it, there aren't too many issues. They do happen, but not enough to be too problematic. At least, from my experience with the game.
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Post by Sonnington on Jun 28, 2016 21:01:26 GMT
Yeah, I'm not a fan of BR. While the transparencies are remarkable in their own right, you have to know and understand Saturn hardware to appreciate it. Overall, if you put BR next to NiGHTS you'd think NiGHTS was more graphically impressive. The gameplay is kinda just boring too.
Edit: For the record, Manx TT wasn't so bad. It's not Sega Rally or something like that, but it was OK.
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Post by xDerekRx on Jun 28, 2016 23:04:47 GMT
BR camera is zero issue to me since its controllable. I said it in my write up earlier but I feel like once I mastered flight it all came together (the controls with the camera). Yuji Naka and Sonic Team had a pretty cool vision with this game and despite not being 100% complete, its there. There are so many different flight movements you can do mid air, its quite an impressive engine.
leidsekade, you hinted at what I brought up earlier as well. The more you play it the more comfortable it gets. Especially in 2016, its NOT an easy game to pick up and play for the first time.
I like BR quite a bit but even more so Nakas vision and creativity across both of his games on Saturn (Nights/CN/BR). BR continued Segas unique out of the box different ideas on the Saturn.
The only real complaint I have with the game is length. Its only really 3.5 levels. The anime story escalates almost too quickly. Had they had more time to add 2-3 more levels it may have drawn out a bit better. But the random level generator adds a unique replay value which was a smart idea to add a bit more length to the game.
With an HD upgrade/polished version I think BR would be a great game. The storyline was/is unique. The boss designs are great already. Add a few more, plus the lost 2 player mode.
We can go back and forth on underrated/overrated but thats where Ive settled with BR after 3-4 playthroughs and admit the first playthrough wasn't super positive either.
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Post by tempest on Jun 29, 2016 0:17:25 GMT
It's been a very long time since I played Tomb Raider or other late-'90s action titles, but now I desperately want to, so that I can decided whether they share these frustrating elements as products of their time, or if this Saturn game is a tad overrated.Nothing wrong with having an objective opinion of the game my friend. You're just calling it purely as you see it. I agree - there's nothing wrong with having a different opinion on the game, but this is subjective, not objective. There's no such thing as an objective opinion, since each word means the opposite of the other. Objective means impartial, while opinion means personal. This isn't an attack on you, Neo, just a general observation. While I can sympathise with your comment that "SEGA Touring Car is shit" - it's a below average / average 4/10 or 5/10 game for me - Manx TT is hardly shit. It's definitely no SEGA Rally or Daytona, but Manx is still a fun and highly playable, if short, game. For me, it's an above average / good game - a 6/10 or 7/10 depending on my mood. As for the general comments, for me I think Derek sums up Burning Rangers in the best way, as a "rough gem". Yes, there are some minor issues with the game, but nothing that ruins it. I recall levels 3 and 4 being frustratingly hard at times on my first play through, and having issues with the camera in the underwater sections. But once players get used to the camera and flight controls, it's a more enjoyable experience. Thus, I can understand players who have only just purchased the game for the exorborant price it goes for these days feeling underwhelmed. It's hardly in league with something like NiGHTS, but it's still an enjoying curio. For me it's either a 7/10 or 8/10. As for Tomb Raider, yes the controls take some getting used to, but I feel people are comparing Saturn Tomb Raider with modern Tomb Raider games, which of course control much better. Taken as a game from 1996 when 3D gaming was just beginning, it's a much more enjoyable experience. If you still can't get over the controls, I recommend the superior Tomb Raider Anniversary.
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Post by xDerekRx on Jun 29, 2016 6:23:45 GMT
.But once players get used to the camera and flight controls, it's a more enjoyable experience. Thus, I can understand players who have only just purchased the game for the exorborant price it goes for these days feeling underwhelmed. It's hardly in league with something like NiGHTS, but it's still an enjoying curio. For me it's either a 7/10 or 8/10. Pretty much on the same page with this paragraph. Especially now when people have high expectations + paying high prices, the initial impression can be a bit underwhelming. Once you "master" or settle in with BR the brilliance of Naka and his team comes out. Its just a hard game to pick up at the get go. Oddly similar to Nakas latest game, Rodea which took time to master controls.
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martiniii
Joined: January 2010
Posts: 2,115
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Post by martiniii on Jun 29, 2016 18:41:29 GMT
Nothing wrong with having an objective opinion of the game my friend. You're just calling it purely as you see it. I agree - there's nothing wrong with having a different opinion on the game, but this is subjective, not objective. There's no such thing as an objective opinion, since each word means the opposite of the other. Objective means impartial, while opinion means personal. This isn't an attack on you, Neo, just a general observation. Not accurate, though. Opinions are not personal; they are analyses of real world things which can be observed by more than one person. Thus opinions have both objective and subjective elements. Indeed, the very fact that you (or any of us) are bothering to debate these opinions illustrates that opinions are not merely personal or subjective. An opinion by definition cannot be completely objective, but it can certainly be more objective than another opinion. While I can sympathise with your comment that "SEGA Touring Car is shit" - it's a below average / average 4/10 or 5/10 game for me - Manx TT is hardly shit. It's definitely no SEGA Rally or Daytona, but Manx is still a fun and highly playable, if short, game. For me, it's an above average / good game - a 6/10 or 7/10 depending on my mood. Yeah, Manx TT is a great little racer. As I believe I mentioned on these boards, I popped it in again a few months ago and was newly impressed with how intense the sense of speed is. It made me physically nauseous at points. It works great with the analog controller, too. Some more tracks would have been nice, but they really put plenty of polish into the options; I remember the ghost mode being considered pretty innovative back in the day. I'd probably give it a 7/10 if I had to review it.
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martiniii
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Post by martiniii on Jun 29, 2016 18:45:36 GMT
8/10 for Burning Rangers is much too generous; it's a rating based on what the game would have been like had it been finished rather than on what it actually is. It says a lot for the development team's level of inspiration that Burning Rangers is pretty fun and unique in spite of its unfinished state, but that doesn't change the fact that it is plainly unfinished.
It's not just about glitchy graphics, which can of course be overlooked, or even there being so few levels that the game seems to climax almost as soon as it begins. The experience as a whole feels unrealized. This is most strongly felt in level 4, which has no fires or hostages to rescue, and thus basically consists of navigating through barren environments with no music; it feels like you're playing a demo for a graphics engine rather than a finished game. There's a good amount of fun to be had in Burning Rangers, and if your mind works that way it can be fun just to dream of what could have been if Yuji Naka and co. had had more time. But judged for what it is, it is not one of the Saturn's greats.
All that said, I can't get behind Neo's assertion that the analog controller makes no difference. The difference is huge. You spend a considerable portion of Burning Rangers navigating the edges of three dimensional platforms, and the precision of the analog controller is perfectly suited for that. There are ways of getting around the limitations of the standard controller, but the experience can never be the same.
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Post by The Elite MYT on Jun 29, 2016 19:17:50 GMT
8/10 for Burning Rangers is much too generous; it's a rating based on what the game would have been like had it been finished rather than on what it actually is. It says a lot for the development team's level of inspiration that Burning Rangers is pretty fun and unique in spite of its unfinished state, but that doesn't change the fact that it is plainly unfinished. It's not just about glitchy graphics, which can of course be overlooked, or even there being so few levels that the game seems to climax almost as soon as it begins. The experience as a whole feels unrealized. This is most strongly felt in level 4, which has no fires or hostages to rescue, and thus basically consists of navigating through barren environments with no music; it feels like you're playing a demo for a graphics engine rather than a finished game. There's a good amount of fun to be had in Burning Rangers, and if your mind works that way it can be fun just to dream of what could have been if Yuji Naka and co. had had more time. But judged for what it is, it is not one of the Saturn's greats. All that said, I can't get behind Neo's assertion that the analog controller makes no difference. The difference is huge. You spend a considerable portion of Burning Rangers navigating the edges of three dimensional platforms, and the precision of the analog controller is perfectly suited for that. There are ways of getting around the limitations of the standard controller, but the experience can never be the same. Just because they could have done more if they had more time, doesn't mean that it's necessarily unfinished. You could say that about any game. Any game with more time could have more stuff. I think they did a good job with what little time they had. I can understand why people wouldn't like it, especially because of the length. And that's perfectly valid. But the game was made to be more of an arcade experience. I don't see any difference between this and something like Sega Rally. Both are insanely short, but replayability is the main thing. For Sega Rally it is time trials, for BR it is the randomised levels, finding survivors, and working on getting high grades/scores. People know Sega Rally is an actual arcade game, so it gets far more forgiveness than BR which many people expect more from - rightly or wrongly. Again, I can see perfectly why someone might think that BR is an incomplete game if they're expected a fleshed out story. Something that will take you a while, but when you're done, you're done. And that's fine. If replayability isn't for you, then BR will probably be not worth the cost. For people that do like replaying, BR's length isn't much of an issue. Sure, more would have been nice, but I could say the same about Sega Rally. Also I have to disagree about level 4. The levels all seem to have their own gimmick. The first is probably the most generic, as it is there to to just get used to using all your stuff. 2 has the water, 3 has the anti grav stuff, and the final is platforming and bosses. There aren't any survivors and not much fire, because there doesn't need to be. It's doing something different. Personally, the final level is probably my favourite. The eye boss is a pain, and the final boss can be a bit troll, but I love it. Can't really comment on the control stuff though. I can imagine it will help a lot with navigating the platforms, but you can deal with it by turning corners using the camera to make things easier. I rarely have much of an issue with that kinda thing. But until I get a 3D controller, I can't compare. Maybe there is a huge improvement.
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NeoGeoNinja
Shadow Warrior
Joined: August 2011
Posts: 6,616
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Post by NeoGeoNinja on Jun 29, 2016 19:18:23 GMT
Not accurate, though. Opinions are not personal; they are analyses of real world things which can be observed by more than one person. Thus opinions have both objective and subjective elements. Indeed, the very fact that you (or any of us) are bothering to debate these opinions illustrates that opinions are not merely personal or subjective. An opinion by definition cannot be completely objective, but it can certainly be more objective than another opinion. Thank you Saved me bothering to explain!
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