Jap Saturn VA10 - 50/60Hz switch not working? Using XRGB3...

[humbug]

Hi guys.

First time using this new forum.

I'm having an odd issue with my new saturn. (blew up the old one)

So for some strange reason the 50/60Hz switch isn't working. I cut the trace to leg 79 and carefully soldered. Double checked the trace was cut and that my switch is working... but it seems the switch does nothing. I remember that I could change this on the fly as with other consoles... though not even rebooting or running PAL/NTSC games makes any difference. I think its stuck in PAL mode... though I can't be sure as I don't have an old crt to test on. PAL games are full screen, I tried a Jap game, full screen but then I just tried Xmen vs Street fighter (US) and it looks to be in pal mode and is glitching.

Plus, the saturn is outputting the image way too low on the screen and is almost outside the screen limits of the xrgb. Anyone know what I'm doing wrong?

Cheers.

[humbug]

*Update*

I reconnected the trace up to leg 79, no shorts and good connection to the via through to the other side... I followed that trace back further and low and behold... there where a set of jumpers all along JP1/JP2. (mine was actually a trace). (but mmmonkeys method with lifting that chips leg is so friggin stupid)... Why is this method even so widely recommended?

Anyway, removed the jumper trace and hooked my switch up to that. Double checked my switch...

But its still stuck in 50Hz Pal mode!!!

The strange thing is the non game menu screen seems to take up a lot of screen space, my Pal copy of sega rally fills up most space... but it seems every other game I try has the letterbox borders. Games like xmen vs street fighter is glitching. Tried street fighter zero 3. intro audio is still glitchy as before, but doesn't seem as bad.

Anyone have any ideas as to whats going on?

Cheers.

[humbug]

*Update 2*

So I just hard wired back the jumper so its now how it came from the factory... Confirmed that circuit is hooked up to 5v...

And it still looks like its stuck in PAL mode.

I just don't get it...

Anyone know how I can confirm what mode its running in? I have seen that you can view the display mode listed on bottom RH side in the saturns option screen... but unfortunately my saturn isn't cooperating...

Halp.

Cheers.

[zyrobs]

If the machine is in NTSC even with JP1 bridged, then either the trace leading to JP1 is broken, or something is broken inside the VDP2. Do a continuity check to see if Pin 79 is getting GND or +5V (with the machine off, lest you short it out). If the pin is connected to +5V and you still get PAL image, then the VDP2 is broken.

JP1/2 is connected to both the VDP2 and the video encoder, and on earlier machines the PLL as well, so it is not a good idea to use that for PAL/NTSC switching. You may end up with a NTSC signal with 4.43MHz colour (most TVs will not handle that and give you black and white video). Or you could end up with the machine running at the wrong main clocks (23MHz or 35MHz instead of 28.6MHz) which will also affect the dot clock and make the machine output the wrong video resolution.
Lifting the VDP2 pin works on all models, hence why guides use that. I prefer cutting traces or soldering kynar wire to the chip instead of lifting the pin though, as to not break it off.

I think it might be what happened to your machine, the VDP2 leg got broke internally due to getting lifted. It's a stupid idea to put a 50hz switch in a 60hz machine anyway.

[humbug]

yup. I tripple checked the pins directly on the chip and confirmed it to be getting 5v and not shorted to ground. nor is it touching adjacent pins.

Is there any other way to confirm if the system is running in PAL/NTSC mode and that it isn't just me? I tried looking in the menu screen but doesn't show anything. 240p test suite is unavailable too.

If worst comes to worst. I have a spare VA09 parts board I can harvest from. Though it was a PAL system, I have had it running in NTSC mode before. I hope I don't run into any BIOS/revision compatibility issues though?

Only reason I wanted the pal switch is because 99% of my real games are PAL.

[zyrobs]

If pin 79 on the vdp2 is getting +5v, but games are running in PAL mode, then it is possible that the chip is damaged. No, there is no other way to switch modes, that pin is the one controlling it, if it is broken then that is that.

You can know that the system is running in PAL mode when all Japanese games are letterboxed heavily, and PAL optimized titles (Sega Rally, Panzer Dragoon Zwei, Virtua Fighter 2, etc) are not missing the lower part of the screen. Also, Xmen vs Streetfighter will indeed glitch up on PAL machines.

It is possible to replace the entire VDP2, if you have the tools and the skill to remove and solder back QFP chips. But make sure the parts number on the chip (the one beginning with 315) is identical, or else you risk potential damage. There should not be any BIOS problems.

[humbug]

well, just before I make a mess ripping out these chips, I guess it would be wise to verify that my saturn is indeed in PAL mode. Apart from just the obvious visual checks, there is no homebrew software for testing screen resolutions. I need something to report what mode its in. Unfortunately my system settings menu isn't showing the mode on the bottom right like this:


Would burning a copy of Pseudo Saturn Kai help me? Unfortunately I don't have a 4-1 cart. So can I get to that screen with this?
(note VDP2 info)

[humbug]

I could also set my camera on a tripod and visually mark out the screen overscan edges and compare with PAL sega rally, non optimised PAL games and regular NTSC games and post up here?

[zyrobs]

Aug 15, 2016 16:38:33 GMT humbug said:

I could also set my camera on a tripod and visually mark out the screen overscan edges and compare with PAL sega rally, non optimised PAL games and regular NTSC games and post up here?

You wouldn't even need to mark anything, it is dead obvious that parts of the screen are missing on PAL optimized games running in NTSC mode. But the fact that Xmen vs SF glitches up badly also indicates that your machine is now running in PAL mode.

Or alternatively you can just fire up the same game in both of your consoles and check the screen size: if they are identical, both are in PAL mode.

[caseh]

PAL copy of VF2 runs really fast at 60hz if you need something to test. The intro video will also run out of sync with the music.

[humbug]

Well, I thought that because I had to replace the caps on the CD board, I was hoping that before going nuclear by replacing VDP2, that replacing all the caps on the motherboard might solve the problem.

So I replaced every single cap on that board, and with expensive tantalums where possible... but nope... still stuck in PAL mode by the looks of it. geeez. So you guys rekon its a faulty chip then? Seems pretty unusual to me :/

Tomorrow I'll try suggested software and note the differences... Then I'll have a crack getting that massive chip out.

Fist time working with a chip this big so I'll be making my own iron bit out of silver/copper brazing rod as I can't get a hold of 'quick chip' and the local shop wanted $350+ AUD for a blower style iron... so persevering with the ghetto method for now. Wish me luck.

[zyrobs]

You might be able to saw off the corner of the VDP2 to expose the broken pin, but I'd only do that if I had absolutely nothing to lose.

If you don't have proper desoldering tools (a hot air station with the appropriate heads), then you'll just end up fatally damaging the board, the chip, or both.

You mentioned that you have a VA9 Saturn; why not just mod that for 50/60hz? If you like the white case better, you could swap cases.

[humbug]

the VA9 saturn is dead... I don't even know if its VDP2 is functional. I tried fixing it but wouldn't give a picture, so I got a non working jap saturn and fixed that instead... except for the VDP2 issue.

I am sure that pin 79 isn't broken as the system wouldn't boot when I had the wire disconnected from either 5v or ground... so i don't think its a mechanical issue with the pin itself. The pin was never lifted to begin with.

[humbug]

also a hot air station isn't really required. With some make shift tips, the bridge fill method can work. Since I don't have a suction tip, I'll have to do it upside down. Tricky but works.