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Post by bultje112 on Mar 27, 2017 14:29:33 GMT
Is the drop in support for old inputs and signals about saving money or about controlling your experience with it?
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Post by bultje112 on Mar 27, 2017 14:30:51 GMT
Why bother though, the HDTV's SCART port makes retro consoles look terrible, and HDMI DVD players have been around for years now. no it doesn't. but you need a very high end tv, which is expensive. some of the new 4k hdr tv's have tremendous internal scalers making the oscc and framemeister obsolute imo.
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Post by bultje112 on Mar 27, 2017 14:31:57 GMT
You guys should consider buying UK tvs on ebay as nearly all of the new tvs have a scart port as well as component and hdmi As much as I love the SCART connection, it doesn't look good on HDTVs as a general rule. Even one of the cheap HDMI upscalers from Amazon will put pure SCART on HDTV to shame. If you haven't done so already, buy one and see for yourself. I played Nights with it, thought it was nothing special. Then I removed the upscaler from the chain and just plugged the SCART straight in - the difference was huge. And that's from a cheap scaler - just think what the likes of OSSC would do! it only means your tv's internal scaler sucks, which is the norm with cheap low-end tv's.
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Post by atolm on Mar 27, 2017 16:34:37 GMT
Why bother though, the HDTV's SCART port makes retro consoles look terrible, and HDMI DVD players have been around for years now. no it doesn't. but you need a very high end tv, which is expensive. some of the new 4k hdr tv's have tremendous internal scalers making the oscc and framemeister obsolute imo. I'm assuming you meant "obsolete" Lol, wut? You know of an HDTV with an internal scaler that allows for razor sharp pixels, treats 240P as progressive, has a scanline option, allows for perfect integer scaling, can save individual setting profiles, and can crop out unwanted over scan all with less than a frame and a half of lag? Model number, please. Do tell, because I find that very hard to believe.
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nevermind
Saturn Player
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Post by nevermind on Mar 27, 2017 16:40:20 GMT
I think it all depends on what size TV you have and how close you sit to it. There are guides out there that show the ideal size TV for your room space. I know some people get awful cheap tvs and even blu rays look awful on them. If you have a gigantic TV and you sit too close to it, you'll have problems.
Saturn over scart on my TV looks pretty awesome to be honest. It's how the Saturn was meant to be played. Very crisp image, 2d games look excellent as well. The Saturn isn't a HD console so any upscaler is going to have trade offs. The best picture you can get is through a rgb monitor, but if you have £1000 to spend on that then good luck to you.
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Post by buckoa51 on Mar 27, 2017 16:52:23 GMT
Indeed I only know of a very small handful of HDTVs that process 240p correctly at all, that's a small number of Samsung models. There's no scanline overlay but they at least recognise it as progressive. Anything else, forget it, it's deinterlaced and butchered to one degree or another. No, it's not how the Saturn was meant to be played. Have a look here:- www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip6WuOvK8EU
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nevermind
Saturn Player
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Post by nevermind on Mar 27, 2017 17:06:58 GMT
Full Rgb scart is the best quality image a Saturn will produce, and UK HD tvs all have this slot. I know in the USA you don't have scart so you need to mess about with upscalers.
I use a Samsung hdtv and don't have any lag or real issues with the image like that video showed. Maybe I've got lucky with my TV choice. The picture looks great on it.
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Post by buckoa51 on Mar 27, 2017 17:14:34 GMT
True, but if your sticking that through a deinterlacer and a TV scaler that is optimised for video, not games, then you won't get good results. Certainly in 95% or more of cases adding a Framemeister or OSSC will yield a dramatic improvement.
When you power on the Saturn on that TV it should come up 720x240p if you got lucky and got one of the rare sets that actually recognises 240p.
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nevermind
Saturn Player
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Post by nevermind on Mar 27, 2017 17:43:01 GMT
OK just booted it up and it does come up with 720x240.. Guess I got lucky. I had no idea that this was unusual. It's a Samsung lcd hdtv from the UK. Would it be worth getting a upscaler if the tv natively supports 240?
Edit :I wonder if it is not unusual in the UK as most tvs have scart connection?
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Post by buckoa51 on Mar 27, 2017 19:35:00 GMT
Yeah you actually got super lucky there, those Sammys are some of the only HDTV to natively support 240P properly, even in the UK/Europe they are unique in that respect. Most HDTVs will treat 240p as 480i, either via SCART, Composite, Component or wherever, just like the Gamesack video explains.
Adding a scaler might still have a little benefit since you can add scanlines and things like that, but given those sets natively support 240p you don't get super high input lag and combing/fringing artefacts so it's not as big a boost as on other TV sets.
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Post by bultje112 on Mar 27, 2017 21:24:06 GMT
no it doesn't. but you need a very high end tv, which is expensive. some of the new 4k hdr tv's have tremendous internal scalers making the oscc and framemeister obsolute imo. I'm assuming you meant "obsolete" Lol, wut? You know of an HDTV with an internal scaler that allows for razor sharp pixels, treats 240P as progressive, has a scanline option, allows for perfect integer scaling, can save individual setting profiles, and can crop out unwanted over scan all with less than a frame and a half of lag? Model number, please. Do tell, because I find that very hard to believe. www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1408691664
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Post by atolm on Mar 27, 2017 22:14:48 GMT
I'm assuming you meant "obsolete" Lol, wut? You know of an HDTV with an internal scaler that allows for razor sharp pixels, treats 240P as progressive, has a scanline option, allows for perfect integer scaling, can save individual setting profiles, and can crop out unwanted over scan all with less than a frame and a half of lag? Model number, please. Do tell, because I find that very hard to believe. www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1408691664 So that 3 year old TV features all the main points I listed? Is that what you're claiming?
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Post by zyrobs on Mar 28, 2017 1:54:11 GMT
I don't know about you guys but if I bought a 4K TV, it would be play 4K content, not to test whether it can upscale 25 year old game consoles properly. It's true that the first thing I hooked up to my 1080p plasma was my C64, but that was to see how it looks with S-video and on a 42" size, not because I expected quality deinterlacing...
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Post by atolm on Mar 28, 2017 3:48:57 GMT
I don't know about you guys but if I bought a 4K TV, it would be play 4K content, not to test whether it can upscale 25 year old game consoles properly. Well, I wouldn't worry about it either, because I'd be plugging up the Framemeister which allows me only to be concerned with quality of picture and low input lag while shopping. However, my HD set handles everything. I would be playing non-4K content on it, simply because 4K tv's are replacing 1080P sets in the marketplace. But a claim was made that the OSSC and Framemeister aren't needed with these new tv's, because the quality of the internal scaler is amazeballs. All that was provided was a link to a 3 year old television, with no actual info to the contrary. I think we'd of heard by now something along the lines of "OMG!! you guys!!!!!! this HDTV handles retro games better than using the Framemeister!!!!!!" A HDTV that handles retro games amazingly out of the box is a pipe dream. If that were true, you can bet tons of people would be making a beeline towards that display instead of getting in on OSSC/framemeister preorders for months out. So again, bultje112, do you have any real info, or are you just pulling claims out of thin air? Cause all I can find on that set you listed is an input lag of 40ms, which is twice the delay of the newer samsungs.... and given that I own and have owned sony HD sets in the past, they typically treat 240P as 480i...
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Post by bultje112 on Mar 28, 2017 7:06:51 GMT
So that 3 year old TV features all the main points I listed? Is that what you're claiming? that tv has a tremendous internal scaler with barely any input lag. that is all you want for retro systems.
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