sych
"Living for the fantasy" -NIGHTS INTO DREAMS- The Classic Saturn Gem!!!
Joined: July 2009
Posts: 2,660
Location:
|
Post by sych on Nov 5, 2016 13:36:20 GMT
I've had the Arcade steering wheel for a couple of weeks now and whilst its a great addition to have for my Saturn collection, it also makes the feeling of driving more authentic and I'm already seing the changes in my driving style based on adjustments in my car set up. However, looking at the laptimes I was able to achieve with a model 2 Saturn control pad, my Arcade racer steering wheel times are still some way off that at the moment. With games like Daytona CE and F1 Challenge, I'm very close but for Sega Rally and Manx TT I'm nowhere near my best lap times. So my question for you guys is: Do you prefer the control pad or Arcade wheel? Which Saturn racers were you able to shave time off your personal best using the Arcade Wheel? How many of those feel they pefrorm better with a Control Pad?
|
|
|
Post by linkt101 on Nov 5, 2016 14:35:43 GMT
The arcade racing wheel is terrible for Sega Rally and Manx TT. For Sega Rally stick with the control pad, for Manx TT use the analogue. Daytona is most suited to the wheel especially when you use it in cockpit view. The racing wheel is going to take time if you're not accustomed to it. It's the same issues I had when I started using the Virtua Stick for fighting games and shumps.
|
|
|
Post by MIK on Nov 5, 2016 21:45:48 GMT
Do you use Manual or Automatic gears? If you use auto gears then I am of no use to you as everything I say will be related to manual. In the mean time I'll tease you with this, Dinosaur Canyon (arcade mode) in 2:55 using all 4 views - and a control pad. Beat that!
|
|
|
Post by Yart on Nov 6, 2016 11:20:33 GMT
Holy crap. How on earth did you just take off like that off the bat!?
That's some of the most amazing driving I've seen in a racing game. Hah! Good work!! I love how you actually managed to lap two people!
|
|
sych
"Living for the fantasy" -NIGHTS INTO DREAMS- The Classic Saturn Gem!!!
Joined: July 2009
Posts: 2,660
Location:
|
Post by sych on Nov 6, 2016 12:09:03 GMT
Do you use Manual or Automatic gears? If you use auto gears then I am of no use to you as everything I say will be related to manual. In the mean time I'll tease you with this, Dinosaur Canyon (arcade mode) in 2:55 using all 4 views - and a control pad. Beat that! My goodness that's some really impressive driving. What a turbo boost of a start too. As for Manual or Auto it the depends on the course but I mainly go Auto. I take it you prefer a control pad as you used one in your video or have you had better results with a steering wheel?
|
|
sych
"Living for the fantasy" -NIGHTS INTO DREAMS- The Classic Saturn Gem!!!
Joined: July 2009
Posts: 2,660
Location:
|
Post by sych on Nov 6, 2016 12:15:46 GMT
The arcade racing wheel is terrible for Sega Rally and Manx TT. For Sega Rally stick with the control pad, for Manx TT use the analogue. Daytona is most suited to the wheel especially when you use it in cockpit view. The racing wheel is going to take time if you're not accustomed to it. It's the same issues I had when I started using the Virtua Stick for fighting games and shumps. Yeah Manx TT is awesome with the analogue. Interesting you mention you use the Virtua Stick for fighting games as I can't imagine that ever being a better alternative than a model 2 pad. Are we talking 3D or 2D or all fighting games in general? I don't really see its benefits with shumps over the pad either but I suppose I gotta buy one and see myself.
|
|
|
Post by linkt101 on Nov 6, 2016 13:31:37 GMT
You should never be using auto if you're playing with a steering wheel. Especially for Daytona, I never need to use the brakes as shifting down gears is preferable.
BTW, you should try out the racing wheel on Hang On GP. Makes a massive difference for that game. People hate on the game, because they don't play it with the wheel.
I was talking about fighting games in general. Watch any high level fighting tournament videos and you'll see the best players are always using arcade sticks. Very often ones which are custom made or perhaps even made by themselves. However, when you're so used to playing with a joystick or d-pad. Making the transition is often awkward. Personally, I do think a d-pad is preferable for 3D fighters as most of the movements involve tapping directions. However, if you were to play the likes of VF2 competitively back in the day. You would need to practice with a Virtua Stick in order to play it competitively in an arcade environment.
As for shmups it's game dependent. All I'll say is for any game that involves having to repeatably tap the fire button like Cotton 2. Using the Virtua Stick is preferable, as it allows you to focus more on dodging projectiles.
|
|
|
Post by MIK on Nov 6, 2016 14:16:51 GMT
To do a fast pull away on the start line in Daytona USA be it Saturn or the actual Arcade Machine/PS3/XBOX360: While in 1st gear hold the brake during the count down and try and keep the revs hovering around 6k to 7k. On GO, let go of the bake and floor it. Obviously my vid is an insight of what you can do when all 4 gears are mapped to the control pad, (see end of the vid for my pad config). This is something not that easily done with the wheel, like you would need 2 gears on the left side of the wheel and 2 on the other... While the car will look really smooth with the wheel on screen the steering and weight of the car feels slow and sort of unresponsive compared to the real arcade version. It's something you might have to put a lot of practice into mastering if you have ever played the real arcade version. And if my memory serves the wheel was not out when Daytona USA was released in Japan on Saturn which might be why the steering is a bit off. One thing the steering does offer though is the arcade machines over steer feature, like if take the the pit exit wide on 777 speedway you can re-correct your line with the wheel by steering-out and then back-in hard. This can't be done with the pad. If using manual with Sega Rally and with practice you should find the wheel a second or so faster that the pad. Remember Sega Rally is about having the car glide around corners being as smooth as possible while carrying as much speed as you can, easier to do with an analog wheel than a pad. I'm happy to use both as pad and wheel play are both superb in Sega Rally Saturn. Manx TT is fully playable with the wheel and works fine, though the 3D pad is way easier to use/work with if you can't be bothered to use the wheel. The best thing to do with the wheel for Manx TT is to move/tilt the wheel upwards on it's max upward angle setting. You then pull the wheel towards you and push away as you steer, more as if riding a bike that way. Manual makes it easier to navigate tight and harder corners, no need to use the brake as changing gear will slow the bike down. Get the right gear and line and your be on a roll. I posted this a little while ago, it's about using the wheel with the (PAL) version of WipeOut, something different any way. segasaturngroup.proboards.com/thread/9766/saturn-wipeout-pal-analog-support
|
|
sych
"Living for the fantasy" -NIGHTS INTO DREAMS- The Classic Saturn Gem!!!
Joined: July 2009
Posts: 2,660
Location:
|
Post by sych on Nov 6, 2016 17:53:21 GMT
I'm gonna attempt to do that fast pull away on the CE and see if it works. I don't have the original Daytona because I consider it awful for many reasons but that's another topic. But I do have a feeling that fast pull away effect is only applicable to the original Daytona. I find the steering is pretty good on CE but that might be because the Steering wheel came after it I'm guessing. Anyway I'll keep practising with the steering wheel but it is looking like the control pad is the way to go for certain games. Hopefully I'll find time to also test out High Velocity and Wipeout 2097
|
|
|
Post by barryburton on Nov 6, 2016 19:27:29 GMT
Love the Daytona masterclass MIK.
What are the differences in handling in your view between Saturn standard, CE and the PS3 versions?
|
|
|
Post by MIK on Nov 7, 2016 1:01:29 GMT
CE is not really an arcade racer in it's handling in my eyes but more like a standard type of racing handling that's being played out on Daytona USA courses. You might have to slow down, you might have to brake and the handling would not be out of place if the game used real NASCAR tracks and was being sold as a more realistic racer under a different name. PS3 like the XBOX360 is as arcade perfect as you could hope for in every way. It plays like a dream though on XBOX360 with the Microsoft wireless U shape wheel using manual. I'm in the top 20 on XBOX360 for Time Attack on Dinosaur Canyon if that's anything to go by. I gave it a good lash any way lol. The original first release on Saturn, the handling is not 100% faithful but the main gist of it is there. On Saturn the car is slightly slower overall than the Arcade version. On say Dinosaur Canyon you lose more and more speed as you drift multiple corners, so by the time you reach the last corner the Saturn version can not be drifted the same because the car is slower at this point... It doesn't break the game these slight speed differences, you just have to make do with what you have. Sometimes its better to do a 1/3/4 gear change on 777 Sonic corner on Saturn, on the arcade you would do a 2/4 gear change. Doing 1st in stead of a 2nd gear on Saturn Sonic corner gets the car drifting much easier and better, 3rd steadies the car and 4th follows through just like the arcade. If your going crazy fast on Saturn and you do a 1/4 gear change on Sonic corner you can spin the car if you push too hard, not good. This Saturn version taught me a lot though in the early days as what I learned at home I took to the arcades. That 20fps can be a pig though and put people off from wanting to play it... Dreamcast Daytona is more or less just like PS3 & XBOX360 for handling. You need to get a feel for it as that twitchy handling is replicating the arcades steering wheel. I can play it easy enough with a pad just I have to remind my self not to be heavy handed when racing along side other cars, easy does it and then all out on the corners.
|
|
|
Post by thewhitefalcon on Nov 7, 2016 3:13:40 GMT
CCE felt so wrong to me I didn't regret selling it. The original port may be 20FPS but it feels right.
|
|
|
Post by barryburton on Nov 7, 2016 8:37:39 GMT
CE is not really an arcade racer in it's handling in my eyes but more like a standard type of racing handling that's being played out on Daytona USA courses. You might have to slow down, you might have to brake and the handling would not be out of place if the game used real NASCAR tracks and was being sold as a more realistic racer under a different name. PS3 like the XBOX360 is as arcade perfect as you could hope for in every way. It plays like a dream though on XBOX360 with the Microsoft wireless U shape wheel using manual. I'm in the top 20 on XBOX360 for Time Attack on Dinosaur Canyon if that's anything to go by. I gave it a good lash any way lol. The original first release on Saturn, the handling is not 100% faithful but the main gist of it is there. On Saturn the car is slightly slower overall than the Arcade version. On say Dinosaur Canyon you lose more and more speed as you drift multiple corners, so by the time you reach the last corner the Saturn version can not be drifted the same because the car is slower at this point... It doesn't break the game these slight speed differences, you just have to make do with what you have. Sometimes its better to do a 1/3/4 gear change on 777 Sonic corner on Saturn, on the arcade you would do a 2/4 gear change. Doing 1st in stead of a 2nd gear on Saturn Sonic corner gets the car drifting much easier and better, 3rd steadies the car and 4th follows through just like the arcade. If your going crazy fast on Saturn and you do a 1/4 gear change on Sonic corner you can spin the car if you push too hard, not good. This Saturn version taught me a lot though in the early days as what I learned at home I took to the arcades. That 20fps can be a pig though and put people off from wanting to play it... Dreamcast Daytona is more or less just like PS3 & XBOX360 for handling. You need to get a feel for it as that twitchy handling is replicating the arcades steering wheel. I can play it easy enough with a pad just I have to remind my self not to be heavy handed when racing along side other cars, easy does it and then all out on the corners. Interesting, thanks MIK. Agree about CCE, it feels a bit like the non- drift mode in Ridge Racer. What about the Japanese CE version? Seems better than CCE to me but still a bit different to standard USA on Saturn. Agree about the 7th gen versions, the PS3 version at least is really very nice.
|
|
|
Post by MIK on Nov 7, 2016 11:37:36 GMT
I've never had the pleasure of playing the Japanese version of CCE, only the PAL one.
|
|
sych
"Living for the fantasy" -NIGHTS INTO DREAMS- The Classic Saturn Gem!!!
Joined: July 2009
Posts: 2,660
Location:
|
Post by sych on Nov 7, 2016 12:01:40 GMT
CE is not really an arcade racer in it's handling in my eyes but more like a standard type of racing handling that's being played out on Daytona USA courses. You might have to slow down, you might have to brake and the handling would not be out of place if the game used real NASCAR tracks and was being sold as a more realistic racer under a different name. You're referring to CCE and not CE, correct? Anyway, I Definitely prefer JPN CE over the original Daytona and then PAL CCE being the worst. However I do love the classic Hornet look on the original Daytona The US Netlink version is actually JPN CE version as well. Back on form with the steering wheel and so much better than my last efforts. Wasn't able to do MIK's turbo start after numerous attempts so I think it's only a trick on the original. I've braved it out and gone Manual for all courses and it seems to be a better pay off with the steering wheel. However, on the games I've tried, I'm still not convinced that the Arcade Wheel can match the control pad in terms of times but we well see. Its a thumbs up for High Velocity Mountain Race Challenge, the Arcade wheel works like a dream on that game.
|
|