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Post by zyrobs on Jul 6, 2023 21:44:52 GMT
The laser is very likely fine, you just need to calibrate it. for curiosity I tried again to switch the lasers on the original assembly, and when moved manually to the outer part, both lasers move to the inside when turned on.
So they both behave the same.
That's not the laser, just the assembly moving it to the position where it has to make the first reads off of the CD.
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Post by zyrobs on Jul 4, 2023 18:25:08 GMT
The laser is very likely fine, you just need to calibrate it.
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Post by zyrobs on Jul 4, 2023 5:37:29 GMT
If the laser moves to the inside but the disc does not spin, then it is either the laser being dead, needing calibration, the tray height might need to be adjusted, or you ordered a replacement and forgot to remove the protective solder blob from it.
Or the laser is dead.
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Post by zyrobs on Jul 4, 2023 5:34:36 GMT
Zyrobs do you happen to have a motherboard with this PLL, could you tell me the serial number to look for to find a system with this PLL in it? I want to investigate this further with Bas @ BetaGamma's help. Every NTSC model 2 except VA8 and VA9 uses those. For PAL only the VA13 boards use them and those are fairly rare, being the last PAL models ever produced. Note that there are three types, for three different configurations. The number suffix is for whatever internal program is set from factory. - CY2292SC-04 used in VA6 and VA7 - CY2292SC-32 used in VA10+ - CY2292SC-45 used in VA13 PAL The Tectoy VA13 service manual has a wiring diagram for the CY2292SC-32. It calls the chips as the Sega 315-6021, but all chips are marked as CY2292SC-xx in the consoles. I haven't tested these further so I don't know what the difference is between VA6/7 to VA10+. VA13 PAL should only differ in an extra 910/1135 divider for the main frequency input. Note that unlike the old Hitachi PLL, none of these have a PAL/NTSC selector pin, they are all hardcoded to NTSC, except the CY2292SC-45 which is hardcoded for PAL. I'd be very interested in hearing about whatever you find. Where will post your investigations, a discord channel?
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Post by zyrobs on Jun 24, 2023 18:48:17 GMT
Of the assembly itself, no, I've never had one go bad before (only the ones I broke myself).
What I know is that if the assembly is not connected or powered (or, I'm assuming, broken), the Saturn boots into the cd player with completely broken sound effects and at least one of the VU meter cubes being full red. The sound effects will be silent, dull and low pitched, with tremendous amount of echo, as if they were playing at 0.1x the normal speed. Which would make sense given that without the assembly the SCSP clocks will be a tenth of their normal value. Note that I have not tested this with VA10+ units, which generate their clocks internally, they might behave different.
So if you get as far as the cd player functioning correctly, then the assembly should be fine. If the laser does not seem to have life, try moving it manually to the outer part of the rail, best way is to spin the gears without touching the laser. Then on bootup the laser should move to the innermost part automatically. This should tell you that the assembly is working and getting commands from the Saturn side.
If you get this far, then it is either the laser being dead, needing calibration, the tray height might need to be adjusted, or you ordered a replacement and forgot to remove the protective solder blob from it.
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Post by zyrobs on Jun 9, 2023 23:14:25 GMT
1. the only interchangeable drives are - JVC ENR-007 with Hitachi JA00292 (both have 20 pin ribbons, used on VA0 and VA1 boards) - JVC ENR-013 with Sanyo 610-6185-30 (21 pin ribbon with the 32pin drive controller IC, used on VA6-9 boards) - JVC HQA-001A with Sanyo 610-6294-30 or 610-6473-30 (VA10+ boards, they all have a white stripe on the edge)
2. Model 1s will 99.9% of the time use JVC ENR-007. Only model 2s used the Sanyo drive and you can only tell by opening the console, bar a rare production run that always used Sanyo drives (PAL 1997 made VA9 boards with serial starting with 179... I think)
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Post by zyrobs on Jun 9, 2023 23:03:48 GMT
Saturn has 4 different drives and they are not pin compatible. You probably switched around two incompatible assemblies.
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Post by zyrobs on Jun 9, 2023 22:58:20 GMT
Try removing the battery, waiting a little while, and testing it again. I've had quite a few dead consoles resurrected just that way. Of course you'll lose your saves and the clock settings, but you might get the console back.
I don't know of any way to replace the PLL, it does a lot more than just generate 1 clock. It's also incredibly fragile and usually the first thing to die in the console after the laser. When I mod the console, I usually try to avoid going anywhere near the thing and always cut traces or ground lines much further up the board, away from that chip. I couldn't even replace the PLL with one from another console, because it just dies during desoldering.
The DFO would not help help since the HD49422 generates 4 different clocks from 2 inputs and has 2 custom divider selector pins. The schematics are available in the leaked service manual, so I guess someone could come up with a replacement.
For what it is worth, here are the PLL clocks I measured on a Japanese VA0 Saturn: PLL pin 5 SCPCLK TP22 11.28 MHz (output, computed from EXTCLK) PLL pin 6 EXTCLK TP92 8.464 MHz (input, computed from 33.8688 MHz CD drive clock / 4, sent through the CD ribbon cable) PLL pin 17 SNDCLK TP21 22.57 MHz (output, computed from EXTCLK) PLL pin 18 DOTCLK TP85 26.86 MHz (output, computed from main clock input) PLL pin 28 FSC TP23 3.578 MHz (output, main clock input / 4, NTSC colorburst frequency) PLL pin 9 OSOUT2 - none PLL pin 26 OSOUT1 - 14.318 MHz (output, this is just the other leg of the master clock input)
These were in the BIOS, so the console was in 320px mode. In 352px mode, the Dot Clock would be 28.6 MHz instead (NTSC clock * 8). This is decided by a 1708/1820 divider controlled by the PLL pin 2. There's also a 910/1135 divider hooked up to PLL pin 1, so the PLL can output approximately the same dot clock on a PAL console which uses a 17.734 MHz master clock. So in total you have 2 inputs, 4 outputs, and 2 external divider pins. VA10+ and later boards only had 1 master clock input and 5 outputs instead, the 33.8688 MHz CD drive clock was generated by the PLL and sent to the CD drive instead of the other way around.
Later NTSC boards and the final PAL board used a different programmable PLL which is much more reliable, so replacing the Hitachi HD49422 is possible, but you would still need to find a way to program a new PLL to the same spec. The good news is that the outputs are all hooked up to IC23 and IC24 which is much easier than if you'd need to cut traces or so to potentially install a new PLL.
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Post by zyrobs on Oct 20, 2022 13:52:21 GMT
The fuse only helps if you have a really poor electric line, and like I said, if it blows, you'll have more important things to deal with than a game console.
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Post by zyrobs on Oct 20, 2022 4:48:38 GMT
The LED is purely decorative (you can see if its on or off), and if the fuse blows you'll most likely have way bigger electrical problems to deal with than whether your Saturns are still working. Also the Saturns are all internally fused anyway.
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Post by zyrobs on Sept 14, 2022 4:05:36 GMT
The patch seems pretty small, I'll have to check what it does, if the change is small enough then it may be possible to make an Action Replay code for it for those who use original discs.
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Post by zyrobs on Sept 4, 2022 10:09:23 GMT
As I recall Itagaki liked the Saturn port more, the xbox version (DOA Ultimate) was based on that.
The playstation port is more like DOA 1.5, with its extra characters, extra costumes, UI that's closer to the sequels, etc... and it got its own arcade port as well.
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Post by zyrobs on Aug 6, 2022 13:57:39 GMT
I imagine it was some sort of coil whine.
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Post by zyrobs on Aug 6, 2022 13:56:09 GMT
Well, you need to calibrate it so they perform the best and have the longest life time. If not calibrated, the laser will have to perform more and more re-reads, resulting in more wear and tear on the laser. Sure, they might work out of the box, but there's a reason you should calibrate it.
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Post by zyrobs on Aug 6, 2022 11:38:52 GMT
Ok, I think I might end up going with an ODE, I don't want to risk damaging the laser based on the further research. Thank you for the help anyways, I really do appreciate it! If you can’t find any ODE in stock, you can get a replacement laser from this seller. I got one from him and my Saturn resurrected www.aliexpress.com/item/32661064684.htmlGood luck! He will still need to calibrate the replacement laser. Also, the replacement are low quality Chinese shit, so chances are that his original laser will last longer than those (once calibrated).
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