nevermind
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Post by nevermind on Mar 18, 2017 7:54:07 GMT
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nevermind
Saturn Player
Joined: March 2017
Posts: 91
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Post by nevermind on Mar 18, 2017 11:06:37 GMT
Basically I need help to see if my console is a PAD sd model or pal model 1 (which can only be done by lifting pin 79 as far as I know) I took the console to work and I'm not sure if the crap old TV doesn't support 60hz when I jumped across "SW4" as the music sounds fine but the image flickers. I may just have to take it home where I know my TV supports 60hz, but I'm being impatient and want to find out today
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Post by zyrobs on Mar 18, 2017 13:35:33 GMT
That's a VA1 PAL board. Due to a design snafu, the SW4 pads are connected to the PLL too, not just the VDP2. So if you use SW4 to switch into 60hz, the machine will end up running at 34MHz, which will cause a buggered image due to the master clock being used as the pixel clock.
You either need to cut the trace leading to the PLL pin 1 and then ground it separately, or lift the PLL pin 1 and ground it. Then you can use SW4 as intended.
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nevermind
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Post by nevermind on Mar 18, 2017 14:37:46 GMT
That's a VA1 PAL board. Due to a design snafu, the SW4 pads are connected to the PLL too, not just the VDP2. So if you use SW4 to switch into 60hz, the machine will end up running at 34MHz, which will cause a buggered image due to the master clock being used as the pixel clock. You either need to cut the trace leading to the PLL pin 1 and then ground it separately, or lift the PLL pin 1 and ground it. Then you can use SW4 as intended. Thanks very much! It took some searching to find the PLL, but it was labelled as "315-5746" and is IC20. When you say to ground it, I just cut the trace and it switched into 60hz seamlessly, is there anything else I need to do? This is the first console I've modded, although I've built quite a few PC's over the years. I couldn't find any pictures of it, so attaching one for anyone else stuck. I just booted up outrun and shorted between the SW4 pads and it worked, off to go solder this all together now. IC20 location on board before trace cut: (Its the little chip below the 3 capacitors, arrow pointing to it from the left) IC20 trace cut:
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Post by zyrobs on Mar 18, 2017 16:30:54 GMT
There's a spot underneath the board where it is safer to cut the trace. You can find it with a multimeter.
I recommend grounding that pin after you cut the trace. The pin pulls itself low, but not reliably, so you may end up with the console sometimes deciding to just not boot up at all. It's very annoying.
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mattius
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Post by mattius on Mar 19, 2017 1:38:07 GMT
TBH mate, I'd just get a Japanese machine. I looked into modding my PAL Saturn, but it's a bit of a clusterfuck compared to 60Hz modding a MegaDrive. Japanese machines are pretty damn cheap. Got mine, complete with power converter and cables for about £50.
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Post by zyrobs on Mar 19, 2017 3:06:21 GMT
Saturn is easy to mod to 60hz as long as you know what you are doing. And Japanese Saturns are too prone to yellowing, and require different video cables (if you use SCART...), and a stepdown adapter.
Megadrive is easier to mode for model 1s, true, but a PAL MD modded to 60hz will output an off spec signal (59.3Hz or something like that), which can cause problems on digital displays. And you need to shave off the cart slot too for Japanese carts.
So I'd say the Saturn is more worth modding to 60hz, and for the Megadrive it is better to get a Japanese unit.
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mattius
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Post by mattius on Mar 19, 2017 3:18:52 GMT
Saturn is easy to mod to 60hz as long as you know what you are doing. And Japanese Saturns are too prone to yellowing, and require different video cables (if you use SCART...), and a stepdown adapter. Megadrive is easier to mode for model 1s, true, but a PAL MD modded to 60hz will output an off spec signal (59.3Hz or something like that), which can cause problems on digital displays. And you need to shave off the cart slot too for Japanese carts. So I'd say the Saturn is more worth modding to 60hz, and for the Megadrive it is better to get a Japanese unit. The model I gray Japanese Saturn doesn't yellow, only the white mark.II. This is true for a lot of white consoles. 60Hz model I MD needs the cutting of a single trace. That's it.
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Post by zyrobs on Mar 19, 2017 4:50:34 GMT
The model I gray Japanese Saturn doesn't yellow, only the white mark.II. Yes they do, it's just not as prominent since the base colour is grey instead of white. But they do yellow just as much. Just look around on ebay, you'll see plenty of examples, like this: www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-Sega-Saturn-Gray-Console-Tested-HST-3210-System-Japan-Import-C-/142314666179If you do only that much on a PAL console, you'll have - sync problems on digital displays, since PAL 60hz MDs don't output NTSC standard 59.97hz. This can be anything from offcenter picture, to jumping picture, to no picture. Less problems on a CRT though. - no colour, unless you use RGB SCART cables - Japanese carts won't fit in the cart slot - region locked games giving you the "This game only runs on PAL Megadrive systems" message. Only way around that is to switch to 60hz after the game boots up, and hoping that it won't glitch up that way. Some PAL games may end up running the music too fast though. Either way, you need a switch installed, if you cut that single trace, all carts will think you are trying to run them on a US Genesis.
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mattius
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Post by mattius on Mar 19, 2017 5:26:09 GMT
The model I gray Japanese Saturn doesn't yellow, only the white mark.II. Yes they do, it's just not as prominent since the base colour is grey instead of white. But they do yellow just as much. Just look around on ebay, you'll see plenty of examples, like this: www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-Sega-Saturn-Gray-Console-Tested-HST-3210-System-Japan-Import-C-/142314666179If you do only that much on a PAL console, you'll have - sync problems on digital displays, since PAL 60hz MDs don't output NTSC standard 59.97hz. This can be anything from offcenter picture, to jumping picture, to no picture. Less problems on a CRT though. - no colour, unless you use RGB SCART cables - Japanese carts won't fit in the cart slot - region locked games giving you the "This game only runs on PAL Megadrive systems" message. Only way around that is to switch to 60hz after the game boots up, and hoping that it won't glitch up that way. Some PAL games may end up running the music too fast though. Either way, you need a switch installed, if you cut that single trace, all carts will think you are trying to run them on a US Genesis. I have a gray Japanese Saturn. It looks just like '94 photos. That eBay one looks fine too. My 60Hz modded Md I works perfectly on an HDTV, although I use it on a CRT with RGB SCART. The slot is modded for JP carts, and I have an adapter for any with copy protection. Also, somehow my modded MD I works flawlessly with my PAL MegaCD I in 60Hz. I have no idea how.
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nevermind
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Post by nevermind on Mar 19, 2017 5:45:32 GMT
TBH mate, I'd just get a Japanese machine. I looked into modding my PAL Saturn, but it's a bit of a clusterfuck compared to 60Hz modding a MegaDrive. Japanese machines are pretty damn cheap. Got mine, complete with power converter and cables for about £50. It wasn't that hard to be honest. With nearly all Saturn models the procedure is really easy, plenty of youtube videos and DIY guides all over the internet. The problem is with my model, the early 1995 launch Saturn's. The only information I found was the posts in this thread by Zyrobs and a few archived threads with all the photos missing. Cutting the trace was easy, fitting the switch on the SW4 port was easy, fitting the modchip was easy. It is beyond my abilities to lift the PLL chip pin1 though and ground it, (which is why I didn't want to lift pin 79 on the graphics chip either) but I have a friend who did an electronics degree who can solder anything popping round later this morning to do that bit for me. Most Saturns are just 2 blobs on solder on SW4 pads and a switch. Anyway thanks Zyrobs for your invaluable help and knowledge, I'll post more photos as this model Saturn is really lacking information online. Hopefully it will help others. I may even change the thread title so it can be found much easier by search engines.
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mattius
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Post by mattius on Mar 19, 2017 6:04:38 GMT
Fair enough. I still prefer getting a JP Saturn tbh. Games are way cheaper.
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nevermind
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Post by nevermind on Mar 19, 2017 6:12:35 GMT
With a 60hz switch I think Jap games play fine on a PAL saturn, either region mod or action replay of course.
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mattius
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Post by mattius on Mar 19, 2017 6:17:30 GMT
With a 60hz switch I think Jap games play fine on a PAL saturn, either region mod or action replay of course. Yeah, but finding the info on my PAL Saturn was hard, as it seems to be a rare revision. Also, some games have issues with AR, and a mod chip can be risky due to the PSU overloading. So much easier to get a JP Saturn and run it in English language mode. Some games will even change the in-game language to match the console setting. Oh yeah, and you don't have to worry about fucking up while soldering!
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nevermind
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Post by nevermind on Mar 19, 2017 9:36:47 GMT
Thinking Mattius is making sense now Soldered the IC20 pin to the earth on the PSU pins, but it is now overclocking the system even when the sw4 pins are not connected. The display is distorted. Do I need to put a resistor in or find a different ground point? If we have no idea what is going on I'll just have to go out and get a model 2 which is much easier. The SW4 pins are clean and not bridged, and the pins on the IC20 chip are clean. (The G/Y wire is going to a mod chip, and I disconnected that and still the same problem. It may have been easier to solder to pin 79 of the graphics chip after all)
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