sych
"Living for the fantasy" -NIGHTS INTO DREAMS- The Classic Saturn Gem!!!
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Post by sych on Sept 24, 2017 0:58:05 GMT
Wasn't there a few additional changes made to the Satakore version over the original JPN? I've often heard the JPN Satakore version is the definitive version. Watching that video above it appears there is a noticeable difference between the PAL and JPN version. bultje112 I look forward to reading your feedback on the game when you finally get round to playing the Satakore version. I've been thinking about trading in my PAL copy for the JPN version for a while now, so I'll be very interested to read your report. Will you be playing it on a JPN or PAL machine? If PAL, do you have a 60hz set up? good call regarding the potential changes, I forget sometimes that even reprints like this get additional fixes (VF4 Evo being a good example) I need to set up the Saturn sometime and replay the Japanese version I have (non Satakore) and see how it compares to that video , as I can't tell exactly from memory. that said, given the PAL version wasn't optimised correctly (the PS1 version certainly looks like it was), any 60hz version will be a bit faster just based on that. Yeah it is a shame about the PAL version of Tomb Raider. Regarding Satakore reprints, I know that the Satakore reprint of Souky fixes some bugs over the original JPN release. I've also recently learnt that Wipeout XL apparently has a better frame rate than Wipeout 2097 and smoother handling on the PS1. I've been wondering whether this is also the case for the Saturn version. If it is, it would certainly explain why the PAL version is dirt cheap and why the JPN version goes for £60-£100. I'd love to know if there's anything difference between those two games as well.
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Post by darkman01 on Sept 24, 2017 8:23:28 GMT
good call regarding the potential changes, I forget sometimes that even reprints like this get additional fixes (VF4 Evo being a good example) I need to set up the Saturn sometime and replay the Japanese version I have (non Satakore) and see how it compares to that video , as I can't tell exactly from memory. that said, given the PAL version wasn't optimised correctly (the PS1 version certainly looks like it was), any 60hz version will be a bit faster just based on that. Yeah it is a shame about the PAL version of Tomb Raider. Regarding Satakore reprints, I know that the Satakore reprint of Souky fixes some bugs over the original JPN release. I've also recently learnt that Wipeout XL apparently has a better frame rate than Wipeout 2097 and smoother handling on the PS1. I've been wondering whether this is also the case for the Saturn version. If it is, it would certainly explain why the PAL version is dirt cheap and why the JPN version goes for £60-£100. I'd love to know if there's anything difference between those two games as well. well I think some of the rarity is simply due to it being a western developed game, which never tended to sell as much as they did in the west. Its part of the reason why the PAL version of Rayman is common and dirt cheap , while the Japanese version is rare and much more expensive.
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sych
"Living for the fantasy" -NIGHTS INTO DREAMS- The Classic Saturn Gem!!!
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Post by sych on Sept 24, 2017 21:07:07 GMT
Yeah it is a shame about the PAL version of Tomb Raider. Regarding Satakore reprints, I know that the Satakore reprint of Souky fixes some bugs over the original JPN release. I've also recently learnt that Wipeout XL apparently has a better frame rate than Wipeout 2097 and smoother handling on the PS1. I've been wondering whether this is also the case for the Saturn version. If it is, it would certainly explain why the PAL version is dirt cheap and why the JPN version goes for £60-£100. I'd love to know if there's anything difference between those two games as well. well I think some of the rarity is simply due to it being a western developed game, which never tended to sell as much as they did in the west. Its part of the reason why the PAL version of Rayman is common and dirt cheap , while the Japanese version is rare and much more expensive. That's probably the bulk of it. But it would be interesting to know if the Saturn XL also runs at a higher frame rate, with better handling. Here's a PS1 comparison.
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Post by darkman01 on Sept 24, 2017 21:51:56 GMT
from that video I can defenitely tell the XL version is faster overall , although it also seems to suffer from a bit more slowdown too (maybe its just me, but 2097 looks smoother if somewhat slower)
was the game optimized for 50hz? the Saturn port wasn't for the most part.
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slicer1000
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Post by slicer1000 on Sept 26, 2017 17:15:35 GMT
Wasn't there a few additional changes made to the Satakore version over the original JPN? I've often heard the JPN Satakore version is the definitive version. Watching that video above it appears there is a noticeable difference between the PAL and JPN version. Sept 24, 2017 1:58:05 GMT 1 sych said: I've also recently learnt that Wipeout XL apparently has a better frame rate than Wipeout 2097 and smoother handling on the PS1. I've been wondering whether this is also the case for the Saturn version. If it is, it would certainly explain why the PAL version is dirt cheap and why the JPN version goes for £60-£100. I'd love to know if there's anything difference between those two games as well. A double check on Satakore show that the Satakore revision of Tomb Raider, is the same revision as the standard Japanese release. Doesn't appear to be a changed version. Hard to say from that video as it's not split screen and we don't know the capture set up for either video, I'll speak to Randomised Gaming to see if they can do a proper split screen video at some point. As this is still interesting me as to if the Japanese version is improved or not and if so by how much. Mainly I suspect it's a 50/60hz issues as PAL optimised games still run slower than NTSC versions in most cases. Indeed in the opening posters video the Saturn video I can tell the PAL footage is run at 50hz and the Japan footage at 60hz. As for Wipeout need to look at who developed it, the Saturn version is a "port" of the PS1 version done by Perfect Entertainment. So I suspect there is little change as it wasn't done by the original Psygnosis development team.
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marc
BACK FROM THE DEAD!!!!!!!!!
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Post by marc on Sept 27, 2017 2:35:50 GMT
Wasn't there a few additional changes made to the Satakore version over the original JPN? I've often heard the JPN Satakore version is the definitive version. Watching that video above it appears there is a noticeable difference between the PAL and JPN version. Sept 24, 2017 1:58:05 GMT 1 sych said: I've also recently learnt that Wipeout XL apparently has a better frame rate than Wipeout 2097 and smoother handling on the PS1. I've been wondering whether this is also the case for the Saturn version. If it is, it would certainly explain why the PAL version is dirt cheap and why the JPN version goes for £60-£100. I'd love to know if there's anything difference between those two games as well. A double check on Satakore show that the Satakore revision of Tomb Raider, is the same revision as the standard Japanese release. Doesn't appear to be a changed version. Hard to say from that video as it's not split screen and we don't know the capture set up for either video, I'll speak to Randomised Gaming to see if they can do a proper split screen video at some point. As this is still interesting me as to if the Japanese version is improved or not and if so by how much. Mainly I suspect it's a 50/60hz issues as PAL optimised games still run slower than NTSC versions in most cases. Indeed in the opening posters video the Saturn video I can tell the PAL footage is run at 50hz and the Japan footage at 60hz. As for Wipeout need to look at who developed it, the Saturn version is a "port" of the PS1 version done by Perfect Entertainment. So I suspect there is little change as it wasn't done by the original Psygnosis development team. The reason wipeout XL is pricey is because it is genuinely rare. Far rarer than most shooters....
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Post by darkman01 on Sept 30, 2017 12:06:53 GMT
I decided to record a short segment of my version of Tomb Raider (Japanese non Satakore) . problem is I don't have any sort of capture equipment so I pretty much had to point a ( very bad) camera at my monitor and record it that way, its not great, but it should give people somewhat of an idea of what that version runs like
for the sake of transparency, the game is running on a modified PAL Saturn (so its running at 60hz, albeit its probably a little off spec compared to an actual NTSC Saturn) through an OSSC , on my Dell 2007FP monitor (kind of old, but its a 1600X1200 monitor , and its an ultrasharp.
and don't mind the odd clicking at the beginning , for some reason the camera picked up the normal loading sound and it somehow became a clicking sound in the video (I need to get a new camera that isn't potato powered)
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Post by bultje112 on Oct 9, 2017 19:56:28 GMT
been away traveling a bit but received the game while away and tested it on a 50hz saturn. I notice considerably less frame rate drops at (level 1) and it is definitely noticeable compared to the pal version of the game. I don't really have a good way to capture video on my tv but the difference is huge imo.
another thing I noticed is as soon as you pick your guns the camera zooms out making it more easy to shoot and know what is going on.
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sych
"Living for the fantasy" -NIGHTS INTO DREAMS- The Classic Saturn Gem!!!
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Post by sych on Jan 2, 2018 0:38:09 GMT
been away traveling a bit but received the game while away and tested it on a 50hz saturn. I notice considerably less frame rate drops at (level 1) and it is definitely noticeable compared to the pal version of the game. I don't really have a good way to capture video on my tv but the difference is huge imo. another thing I noticed is as soon as you pick your guns the camera zooms out making it more easy to shoot and know what is going on. Thanks for testing this out, I'll probably pick up the JPN version at some point. Is it possible to continue my save file from the PAL version of the game using the JPN version?
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Post by darkman01 on Jan 3, 2018 0:10:50 GMT
been away traveling a bit but received the game while away and tested it on a 50hz saturn. I notice considerably less frame rate drops at (level 1) and it is definitely noticeable compared to the pal version of the game. I don't really have a good way to capture video on my tv but the difference is huge imo. another thing I noticed is as soon as you pick your guns the camera zooms out making it more easy to shoot and know what is going on. Thanks for testing this out, I'll probably pick up the JPN version at some point. Is it possible to continue my save file from the PAL version of the game using the JPN version? from my experience (going from the PAL version to the standard Japanese release) , I was able to use the PAL save with no issues. In fact it was better since i could now move it to the memory cart.
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sych
"Living for the fantasy" -NIGHTS INTO DREAMS- The Classic Saturn Gem!!!
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Posts: 2,660
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Post by sych on Jan 3, 2018 1:39:20 GMT
Thanks for testing this out, I'll probably pick up the JPN version at some point. Is it possible to continue my save file from the PAL version of the game using the JPN version? from my experience (going from the PAL version to the standard Japanese release) , I was able to use the PAL save with no issues. In fact it was better since i could now move it to the memory cart. That's great to know. Looking forward to seeing if I can notice any noticeable differences in the JPN version.
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Post by Anthaemia. on Jan 3, 2018 17:14:53 GMT
As much as I normally enjoy Digital Foundry's work (which probably comes from Rich Leadbetter being the former mastermind behind much of SSM's run along with the short-lived MAXIMUM), their DF Retro piece on Tomb Raider was hardly the definitive statement it quite easily could - and should - have been. For example, I don't recall them mentioning anything about how the Saturn version was so rushed that it lacked the ability for Lara to perform a handstand, even though this is really just another minor cosmetic difference with no real effect beyond giving PlayStation and PC owners further reason to consider their editions superior. As for any marginal yet perceptible improvements to overall performance or bug fixes, we're still due a proper comparison using both the standard Japanese and later Satakore pressings rather than just one. Unlike the situation with Doom, I suspect there's a lot more left to be uncovered with this game...
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sych
"Living for the fantasy" -NIGHTS INTO DREAMS- The Classic Saturn Gem!!!
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Post by sych on Jan 3, 2018 21:24:49 GMT
As much as I normally enjoy Digital Foundry's work (which probably comes from Rich Leadbetter being the former mastermind behind much of SSM's run along with the short-lived MAXIMUM), their DF Retro piece on Tomb Raider was hardly the definitive statement it quite easily could - and should - have been. For example, I don't recall them mentioning anything about how the Saturn version was so rushed that it lacked the ability for Lara to perform a handstand, even though this is really just another minor cosmetic difference with no real effect beyond giving PlayStation and PC owners further reason to consider their editions superior. As for any marginal yet perceptible improvements to overall performance or bug fixes, we're still due a proper comparison using both the standard Japanese and later Satakore pressings rather than just one. Unlike the situation with Doom, I suspect there's a lot more left to be uncovered with this game... I don't think the normal JPN version is any different to the Satakore version as its just a reprint. But the JPN version is supposed to be better than the PAL and US version I believe.
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Post by bultje112 on Aug 15, 2018 19:33:02 GMT
will the japanese version run faster on a 50hz machine than on a 60hz machine? It's been a while. I'm currently moving so I won't be able to test for a few weeks.
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slicer1000
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Post by slicer1000 on Sept 19, 2018 11:14:29 GMT
So I got, my buddies over at Randomised Gaming to look into this awhile back, the end results were that the PAL Saturn release of Tomb Raider is highly unfinished and Core continued to update the game release after release. The Japanese Saturn version is far closer to the final PC release, with updated textures seen in-game and a number of bug fixes. Even the PSOne versions have different changes based on the version used.
The PAL releases weren't corrected for speed and do run slower than the NTSC ones. However Core Design did use 576i correctly in the PAL release and show more lines in that version, so the NTSC version have a smaller screen area. Oddly enough the game engine did seem to be built for the Saturn as the aspect ratio is incorrect in all PSOne builds of the game with many textures appearing stretched.
Full write up here of the subject with the link to the video to go with it:
Companion video piece here, read the up feature first there are lots of comparisons in this video the Saturn PAL/NTSC one is at 26:25 :
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