Hello! Also a few questions about problems i have had.

[davyk]

With respect to PAL optimisation on Saturn, it is safe to assume that it hasn't been done unless you are playing major 1st party games. Titles like Sega Rally, VF2, Nights, Baku Baku and Fighters Megamix all got some level of PAL optimisation to the point where playing them at 60Hz will be glitchy.

It is safe to assume that any 3rd party game by the likes of Konami, Treasure, Capcom and Hudson are not optimised and will run fine at 60Hz.

However there will be exceptions to the rule.

Your TV sounds a bit dodgy to be honest. If a game is bordered top and bottom then a PAL port is most likely the reason. If losing image off the sides then it could just be the TV and Saturn not getting on. Some games have options for Arcade or Saturn display modes that can change the image width slightly. Some others have an image adjust mode though that is rare (Puzzle Fighter has that for example).

If the sound is dodgy and you are playing an official copy of a game it could be damaged disc or dodgy hardware. If playing a burned disc then all bets are off - could be dodgy ROM, dodgy disc or a host of other problems.

You know this by now but I'll say it anyhow - if you think you will get official Saturn games worth playing for 99p you will be living in a world of hurt. The Saturn is a totally different proposition to the collector. The fact is that in retrospect, the Saturn is the best console of that gen. The PS1 may have been more successful and had a wider and stronger library at the time, and the N64 may have had a clutch of revolutionary games and was the console of choice for local 4 player ............   but the fact is that when looking to play mid-90s games in 2018, the Saturn is the far better prospect as it has aged far more gracefully than the Ps1 and N64 for many different reasons. And this coming from someone who loves his Ps1 and N64 (though N64 in particular     ) .

And for the optimal experience, you still need a CRT and an RGB SCART cable. By all means look at upscalers like the Framemeister but even that has compromises.   Although - the OSSC is starting to look more and more like the best option and the temptation is growing  

[nooneyouknow]

Apr 4, 2018 23:43:27 GMT davyk said:

With respect to PAL optimisation on Saturn, it is safe to assume that it hasn't been done unless you are playing major 1st party games. Titles like Sega Rally, VF2, Nights, Baku Baku and Fighters Megamix all got some level of PAL optimisation to the point where playing them at 60Hz will be glitchy.

It is safe to assume that any 3rd party game by the likes of Konami, Treasure, Capcom and Hudson are not optimised and will run fine at 60Hz.

However there will be exceptions to the rule.

Your TV sounds a bit dodgy to be honest. If a game is bordered top and bottom then a PAL port is most likely the reason. If losing image off the sides then it could just be the TV and Saturn not getting on. Some games have options for Arcade or Saturn display modes that can change the image width slightly. Some others have an image adjust mode though that is rare (Puzzle Fighter has that for example).

If the sound is dodgy and you are playing an official copy of a game it could be damaged disc or dodgy hardware. If playing a burned disc then all bets are off - could be dodgy ROM, dodgy disc or a host of other problems.

You know this by now but I'll say it anyhow - if you think you will get official Saturn games worth playing for 99p you will be living in a world of hurt. The Saturn is a totally different proposition to the collector. The fact is that in retrospect, the Saturn is the best console of that gen. The PS1 may have been more successful and had a wider and stronger library at the time, and the N64 may have had a clutch of revolutionary games and was the console of choice for local 4 player ............   but the fact is that when looking to play mid-90s games in 2018, the Saturn is the far better prospect as it has aged far more gracefully than the Ps1 and N64 for many different reasons. And this coming from someone who loves his Ps1 and N64 (though N64 in particular     ) .

And for the optimal experience, you still need a CRT and an RGB SCART cable. By all means look at upscalers like the Framemeister but even that has compromises.   Although - the OSSC is starting to look more and more like the best option and the temptation is growing  

Losing an image off the sides only happens with those games that don't seem to be PAL-optimised. I don't think it is the TV. The sound problems happen with most games, pressed and burned it has happened with, so I'm pretty sure that it is a hardware fault. I have never expected to get Saturn games for 99p, I consider myself lucky getting a Saturn for just £20 along with a game and necessary-for-use accessories. I have no clue how the rest of that paragraph is relevant. Why do you need an upscaler?

[davyk]

I've had 3 TVs that lost some image off the left hand side when using RGB SCART. When using composite the image was centered. Didn't matter if it was PAL or NTSC. The one I'm using at the minute doesn't suffer from that fortunately. It is a common problem and a quick google will confirm that. Many people enquire about hidden engineer menus that can be used to rectify it. If playing a PAL optimised game at 60Hz you will usually lose some of the picture due to overscanning though in that case it usually more to do with losing some of the image of the top or bottom (more usually the bottom).

With respect to sound problems - you may well be right. It could be a hardware fault.

The rest of the paragraph was placing Saturn in the context of its contemporaries and why its more collectable; explaining why its games are sometimes more expensive.

Many who do not use a CRT with their older consoles use an upscaler such as a Framemeister XRGBmini or OSSC as they otherwise find the experience less than enjoyable with a poor image and lag.

All I was doing was passing on my experience and providing some context to a joiner who perhaps wasn't familiar with the Saturn collecting scene. It seems it wasn't welcome. Fair enough. Perhaps the tone of my post was misinterpreted which is easy to do. Maybe I misread the tone of your reply. Welcome to the forum anyhow.

[buckoa51]

I've had 3 TVs that lost some image off the left hand side when using RGB SCART. When using composite the image was centered. Didn't matter if it was PAL or NTSC

Cables wired badly are particularly prone to this, I have got a technical explanation somewhere but I can't put my finger on it at the moment. Always use a cable wired properly for 75ohm sync without a sync cleaner (no reason for this 99% of the time) or for luma on sync if this isn't an option.

Perhaps nooneyouknow you could hook up something like a Megadrive or SNES and try the 240p test suite (http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?title=240p_test_suite) to see how much your TV is actually overscanning? 240p suite is still in development for Saturn unfortunately.

[davyk]

It's weird though. Maybe it is the cables. I can remember scanning different forums about it when I had the problem and it seemed to be a common problem. Back then many used the engineers menu to correct it but I've never had a set that seemed to have one of those!

Don't think that addresses his sound problem though. Maybe it does?

[nooneyouknow]

Apr 13, 2018 7:15:20 GMT davyk said:

I've had 3 TVs that lost some image off the left hand side when using RGB SCART. When using composite the image was centered. Didn't matter if it was PAL or NTSC. The one I'm using at the minute doesn't suffer from that fortunately. It is a common problem and a quick google will confirm that. Many people enquire about hidden engineer menus that can be used to rectify it. If playing a PAL optimised game at 60Hz you will usually lose some of the picture due to overscanning though in that case it usually more to do with losing some of the image of the top or bottom (more usually the bottom).

With respect to sound problems - you may well be right. It could be a hardware fault.

The rest of the paragraph was placing Saturn in the context of its contemporaries and why its more collectable; explaining why its games are sometimes more expensive.

Many who do not use a CRT with their older consoles use an upscaler such as a Framemeister XRGBmini or OSSC as they otherwise find the experience less than enjoyable with a poor image and lag.

All I was doing was passing on my experience and providing some context to a joiner who perhaps wasn't familiar with the Saturn collecting scene. It seems it wasn't welcome. Fair enough. Perhaps the tone of my post was misinterpreted which is easy to do. Maybe I misread the tone of your reply. Welcome to the forum anyhow.

Ah, ok then. Sorry if i sounded a little aggressive. Thanks. That makes sense. Not all of the games have image problems as far as i can remember, only some. Namely the street fighter games i burned. My senses don't seem very good compared to some other peoples so i might not be having the full experience in terms of image and latency but i probably wouldn't notice anyway. to be honest I'm more worried about the sound problems and freezing.

I don't think the cable thing would be anything to do with the sound issues because my problem involves individual sound channels cutting out indicating it is a problems with things that go on before the sound is mixed together and sent to the TV. There are also other glitches like Sega Rally freezing when you pause it and displaying a weird green texture across part of the screen whilst frozen and then unfreezing a while later and returning to normal. The opening FMV (not real-time animation) in Virtua fighter 2 sometimes decides it will stop and proceed to the title screen at a specific point that it is not meant to stop at. It will then stop at that specific point every time it plays on the same system boot. Channels cutting out is not the only problem i have had with the audio. Street fighter 2 and Sega Rally have had single sound effects playing on loop before when they are not meant to.

[nooneyouknow]

Apr 16, 2018 10:30:26 GMT buckoa51 said:

I've had 3 TVs that lost some image off the left hand side when using RGB SCART. When using composite the image was centered. Didn't matter if it was PAL or NTSC

Cables wired badly are particularly prone to this, I have got a technical explanation somewhere but I can't put my finger on it at the moment. Always use a cable wired properly for 75ohm sync without a sync cleaner (no reason for this 99% of the time) or for luma on sync if this isn't an option.

Perhaps nooneyouknow you could hook up something like a Megadrive or SNES and try the 240p test suite (http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?title=240p_test_suite) to see how much your TV is actually overscanning? 240p suite is still in development for Saturn unfortunately.

I would probably need an everdrive for that to run the software from and i don't have one unfortunately. The website lists a dreamcast version. I could try that if either one of my dreamcasts will work. They both have display problems and one didn't seem to boot, with the one that did boot not running software anyway (one gives VMU display and one doesn't, that's how i know if it is booting or not). The faults indicate towards a faulty power supply or "blown logic board" but it can't be the latter because when i went to show someone the problem they both decided to work fine all of a sudden as if nothing was wrong when i had tried booting them for months with the same problems. A while later i tried to boot them again and they were back to the old problems. At least none of the deep internals can be permanently broken like i thought they could be before (electronics fried as many websites say). I could try a Wii version if i had a video output that would work with my TV (i only have a Wii u with HDMI).

[zyrobs]

Picture being pushed too much to the left is most likely an alignment issue on the TV itself. I've had it happen on all of my TVs in PAL mode, even on my C64.

[nooneyouknow]

May 17, 2018 21:43:39 GMT zyrobs said:

Picture being pushed too much to the left is most likely an alignment issue on the TV itself. I've had it happen on all of my TVs in PAL mode, even on my C64.

Sorry for being really late. I often forget for long periods to check this site. I'm pretty sure both sides of the screen are cut off and I don't think there is any way of re-aligning it on my TV. Or is that done from within the game?

[mick_aka]

Apr 13, 2018 7:15:20 GMT davyk said:

I've had 3 TVs that lost some image off the left hand side when using RGB SCART.

My Dreamcast does this via SCART, Svideo and Composite on my old Viera Plasma upstairs but not on any other TV in the house, and every other console is fine on the plasma.
I always just accepted that the plasma didn't like something about it and kept it hooked up to a CRT.

[buckoa51]

what kind of TV are you using nooneyouknow?