Saturn Model 2 crash and graphic issue

[metalsonic84]

Hi everybody,
I own the game Tunnel B1 Pal and sometimes I play this game but...when I complete a level (that i don't remember wich) or when I die trying to complete the level this game goes to crash going to the main dashboard of the system EVERYTIMES!

So i tried also with other games and...Soviet Strike make me see some graphic bugs like a dragging trail...
In Hang On Gp 95 saw and crushed onto an invisible wall in the middle of the street....

Sadly there's no valid forum in my country's language so I decide to ask you what may be the main problem and possibly how to solve it.

[zyrobs]

Does the machine start crashing less often the longer you leave it running, and have the screen "shaking" whenever you hear the laser moving in the CD drive? If so, the motherboard needs to be recapped.

[metalsonic84]

Dec 29, 2019 14:40:00 GMT zyrobs said:

Does the machine start crashing less often the longer you leave it running, and have the screen "shaking" whenever you hear the laser moving in the CD drive? If so, the motherboard needs to be recapped.

I still haven't noticed the things you've written to me.

as soon as I have time, I'll let you know

[zyrobs]

Well, it's a good idea to recap the console anyway, since the electrolytic caps are over 20 years now, which is beyond their life span.

[metalsonic84]

Dec 29, 2019 18:28:06 GMT zyrobs said:

Well, it's a good idea to recap the console anyway, since the electrolytic caps are over 20 years now, which is beyond their life span.

considering that I don't know how to regenerate electronic parts by myself; is it better to pay a professional or buy a "new" console on ebay?

Maybe, and repeat maybe, I can replace the optical lens...but we don't know if it's this one the problem.

[zyrobs]

Buying another unit from ebay would potentially have the same issues. These are old consoles. Perhaps if you buy a model 1, those seem to be less susceptible to this problem for some reason.

[metalsonic84]

Dec 30, 2019 2:28:31 GMT zyrobs said:

Buying another unit from ebay would potentially have the same issues. These are old consoles. Perhaps if you buy a model 1, those seem to be less susceptible to this problem for some reason.

I think you're right. At this point I'd better take it to a specialist. Looking on ebay I saw that the model 1 is around 200 euros used!!!

[zyrobs]

I know there are people in the UK who can do this specifically for the Saturn, and there should be a few modders in France as well but I don't know about the rest of the EU. I can do it but shipping the console alone is almost 40 euro. Where are you located?

Perhaps you could ask somewhere like a TV repair shop if they could replace the capacitors. One thing to note is that you'll need the lowest profile caps you can find, otherwise the caps will not fit under the metal plate. I think there's only something like 5mm height available.

Also there's no guarantee whatsoever that recapping would even fix the unit, it's just the most common problem they have nowadays.

[metalsonic84]

Dec 30, 2019 19:59:07 GMT zyrobs said:

I know there are people in the UK who can do this specifically for the Saturn, and there should be a few modders in France as well but I don't know about the rest of the EU. I can do it but shipping the console alone is almost 40 euro. Where are you located?

Perhaps you could ask somewhere like a TV repair shop if they could replace the capacitors. One thing to note is that you'll need the lowest profile caps you can find, otherwise the caps will not fit under the metal plate. I think there's only something like 5mm height available.

Also there's no guarantee whatsoever that recapping would even fix the unit, it's just the most common problem they have nowadays.

I think i have some retroshop in my country that can help me. Unfortunately I'm in Italy...

Anyway, I haven't noticed any kind of problem you listed...

The crash of Tunnel B1 is always in the same point. Soviet Strike it improved after I cleaned the lens.

I think the lens is slowly losing power...what do you think about?

[zyrobs]

The crash in Tunnel B1 could easily be from bad lens, or more likely from a scratched disc, since it always happens in the same spot AND it resets to the audio player. The system resets to the audio player if it can't read the disc.

However, read errors should not cause graphics glitches or invisible walls or other broken gameplay like that. That's caused by memory or cpu errors, which in the Saturns case is most often caused by the PLL (the chip responsible for generating the 28.6MHz clockspeed) getting issues. It's also possible that some of the chips are not working anymore. Broken solder joints for the ICs can also be a common issue causing semi-random problems.

[metalsonic84]

Dec 30, 2019 23:12:23 GMT zyrobs said:

The crash in Tunnel B1 could easily be from bad lens, or more likely from a scratched disc, since it always happens in the same spot AND it resets to the audio player. The system resets to the audio player if it can't read the disc.

However, read errors should not cause graphics glitches or invisible walls or other broken gameplay like that. That's caused by memory or cpu errors, which in the Saturns case is most often caused by the PLL (the chip responsible for generating the 28.6MHz clockspeed) getting issues. It's also possible that some of the chips are not working anymore. Broken solder joints for the ICs can also be a common issue causing semi-random problems.

what you write is right and you've been very exhaustive. But shouldn't Tunnel b1 game have graphic glitches too?

[davyk]

Is it possible that the power supply is glitchy? If there's no nice clean power supply it can cause lots of issues in any game console or equivalent.

[metalsonic84]

Anyway, I'll have to take it to a specialist to regenerate it.

[metalsonic84]

Hi, it's passed several time since I've posted here.
today I talked with a retroshopper of my region and this guy tell me that my problem with the saturn is caused by too much time without playing with it and affects the pal version expecially
It can be true?
He added saying japan version is better than mine..
again, Is it true?

[zyrobs]

Aug 8, 2020 15:16:01 GMT metalsonic84 said:

today I talked with a retroshopper of my region and this guy tell me that my problem with the saturn is caused by too much time without playing with it and affects the pal version expecially

It's sort of correct. The common model 2 VA9 boards have these issues. The less often you play with them the longer they need to "warm up" and work without crashing/freezing. I suspect the problem is caused by a combination of using the old PLL chip and a different layout of capacitors compared to Model 1 machines, which makes it more susceptible to capacitors not performing up to spec - which they won't, due to old age.

However I found that replacing the caps will make this much less of a problem. Note that capacitors have a finite age of ~20 years, the electrolyte in them dries up, and they won't perform as well. So you need to recap old hardware either way, not just due to bad/leaking caps.

Japanese units don't use that layout + PLL chip combination, except for a few model 2 V-Saturns and all model 2 Hi-Saturns. Normally they use a newer PLL chip which is more robust, so they aren't affected that much.