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Post by saturnworship on Aug 4, 2008 14:43:24 GMT
The title says it all... what are the real chances to get some of those unreleased games/protos? Do you guys think there are maybe some ways to be closer to them?
-Ninja:
-Sonic X-treme (the other betas..):
-Sonic The Fighters:
-Grandia / Snatcher usa translations (started but never complete):
-Shenmue:
-VF3 (haha!):
-Blood omen : Legacy of Kain:
-Grand Theft Auto:
-Air Nights:
-Bio Hazard Dash / Saturn Bio Hazard 1.5
fighting force almost achieved in some way, virtua striker confirmed as no,
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Post by saturnworship on Aug 4, 2008 14:45:28 GMT
I think that obviously the easier would be fighting force, blood omen and gta, just for the fact that they come outside of SOJ ... and about bio hazard dash, .. well.. we know about capcom security on old beta's protos, if not, just ask the people in bioflames, haha!
I'm sure Sega Saturn Magazine got playable betas from Fighting Force and Ninja.. and if some contact (drx contact, speaking loud) , could know something about the Grandia / Snatcher thing would be really great.
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Post by Anthaemia. on Aug 4, 2008 17:57:16 GMT
Now this is a conversation I was born to participate in! I'm going to try and handle each game in order, so here goes:
Fighting Force was released in the form of a two-level rolling demo on Core's official demo disc, with review code known to have been sent to various magazines. The chance of this one ever surfacing is good, but don't look to former SSM writers as they were made to give up any games they were entrusted a long time back. Anyway, since many are still in the gaming industry, what's the chance they'll break non-disclosure agreements for the likes of us, even if they do share our beliefs regarding certain unreleased titles? As it was cancelled at a much earlier date (and significantly reworked before appearing on the PlayStation), we can probably rule out anything worthwhile still existing from Ninja.
Sonic Xtreme is a bit of a tough issue, as there are so many different builds known to exist, but how many of these are remotely playable or substantial enough to warrant the efforts required for any leak? Even if we did get the most complete version, would it be compensation for the loss of this game way back when? In my opinion, Sega Technical Institute did a great job convincing the world more had been done with Sonic Xtreme than was actually the case - the later PC edition is supposedly more complete, though only two people worked on the game at this point and we already know that one of those (engine programmer Ofer Alon, for the record) is reluctant to even talk about this game, never mind share anything resembling code. Still, at least designer/musician Chris Senn is taking the time to give us everything he can find from this one...
Sonic The Fighters was indeed completed for the Saturn, though AM2 integrated enough from this abandoned game into Fighters Megamix to satisfy most fans. Of course nothing will ever compensate for the loss of a full conversion, but at least we've since received a pixel-perfect treatment of the Model 2b original as part of the Gems Collection. While it would indeed be great to see this one, I personally don't see much of a point as the best has already been.
English translations of Grandia and Snatcher would be fantastic, with neither being exactly out of reach. Two other games I fit into a similar category would be the abandoned Saturn versions of Metal Gear Solid and Vandal Hearts, both known to have been started yet never publically seen. Konami's not exactly known for leaks of its prototypes, so until things chance we'll probably never see much of these. Returning back to Grandia for a second, wouldn't it be easier for someone with the talent and patience to put together a translation hack?
With over two years of solid work carried out under the greatest of secrecy, Shenmue made it to a very advanced stage in its Saturn prototype form. I've been reliably informed that Yu Suzuki was close to announcing the project in late 1998, but with the Dreamcast release imminent he decided this game would benefit from a change of platform. According to one source, only the voice files had yet to be recorded and implemented, though naturally there would have been a lot of bug testing required as well. There's no way AM2 could have demonstrated every single detail from such a massive project in a short video, and unless this game wasn't quite as well advanced as has been suggested I can't help thinking what else we could have been shown in the space of the single existing clip released with the second Dreamcast installment. A rumoured sixteen chapters spread across eight discs, and all we get are a few familiar scenes from the first two Dreamcast games, including very few outdoor locations with non-playable character interaction? Cut us some slack, Suzuki - we all know there's a lot more of this one locked away in the vaults! On the other hand, whether or not we'll ever get to see more is another thing entirely...
Virtua Fighter 3 was completed on two separate occasions, but as the first revision is believed to be comparable graphically with Fighters Megamix and Digital Dance Mix we all really want to know what the later version looked like. If the rumoured performance figures are true, we're missing out on a real technical showcase of the Saturn's otherwise untapped power. The very copy that was recalled from a pressing plant in Japan is known to be in the very safe hands of a trusted high-ranking member of Sega's UK operations who even gives playtest opportunities to certain people within the industry, and with non-disclosure agreements high on this person's agenda we're never going to hear as much as an account. Then again, if security really is that high then how come Yu Suzuki himself has been known to discuss the game behind closed doors, providing the information revealed is never made public? Naturally, there's always someone prepared to risk their jobs - how else would I know so much about this one?
Legacy Of Kain and Grand Theft Auto can also be categorised together, as I don't really know enough about either of these. From my limited knowledge, I feel it's safe to say that both were more ideas than realities. There's always the possibility some code was passed through a Saturn development kit, and Blood Omen in particular seems the most likely to have been approaching a level of completeness. I guess we can file these under the same category as Destruction Derby 2 and perhaps the Saturn conversion of Formula 1 - providing the latter did reach a programming stage in its development!
AIR NiGHTS was a name being passed around for years before Sonic Team officially confirmed that a game bearing this title never made it into development, with more ideas than actual code being passed around. We all know about the proposed use of a gyroscopic motion sensor that would have inserted into the 3D Control Pad designed for the original NiGHTS, but neither game or upgrade ever made it off the drawing board... or did they? I'm not doubting for a second that something may still be kicking around the offices, though leaks from within Sega of Japan can be counted on one hand so chances are very slim. For comparison, we'll probably get the MegaDrive version of Virtua Fighter 3 before this one (joke)!
I have a vintage interview with the director of Virtua Striker that confirms a Saturn version was never really on the cards, so we can safely wipe this off our lists right now. During the preliminary research stage of development, AM2 concluded the Saturn just didn't have enough power to handle a game of such complexity. Other conversions from Model 2 could get away with graphical compromises, but Virtua Striker demanded polygonal backgrounds and players. Would all of this still have been possible? Probably not, so how about if the programmers were to sacrifice stadium detail? That would have been awful, so what if they took out the 3D footballers from the equation? Does this seem familiar to fans of the original Victory Goal? I've not even contemplated the possibility of reducing either resolution of frame rate, and considering any Saturn treatment wouldn't have been pixel perfect maybe it's just for the better we didn't get this one. On the subject of Model 2 conversions, Motor Raid and Top Skater were two other such missed opportunities we didn't receive because of similar problems as well - can you picture either running slowly with rough textures? Just don't mention The House Of The Dead!
There are too many conflicting descriptions of Biohazard Dash (or "RED" as Capcom once referred to this game in an interview) for me to form any conclusion, and personally I'd love to know more about the proposed Saturn version of "1.5" that was supposedly very different to the PlayStation edition so high on the radar of many collective enthusiasts instead. Had they carried on supporting the Saturn after the release of Street Fighter Zero 3, Capcom was planning on treating us to conversions of Red Earth, Marvel VS Capcom and Street Fighter III. I wish...
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Post by chizzles on Aug 4, 2008 19:54:31 GMT
Yeah, it should be relativley easy to take the English text from the PS1 version of Grandia and hack it over into the Saturn version. However it would be even easier just to play the Ps1 version and not bother Metal Gear Solid was also originally planned for release on Game.com
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Post by saturnworship on Aug 5, 2008 10:00:56 GMT
chisorasu :
"Metal Gear Solid was also originally planned for release on Game.com"
?? what do you mean with that ?
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sonix
Sega Saturn FTW!
Joined: March 2008
Posts: 938
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Post by sonix on Aug 5, 2008 11:27:36 GMT
He means that there was a Game.com version of MGS in development but it was cancelled and MGS: Ghost Babel for GB Color was made instead. It was planned as a "faithful" copy of PSX's MGS with MSX version look (radar and VR missions would have been included too).
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