Nick1984
'What a knucklehead!'
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Post by Nick1984 on Feb 10, 2013 10:44:04 GMT
By far my favourite fighting game, revolutionary arena system and breathtaking graphics for the time, still to be surpassed.
Opening
Model 3 tech demo (AOU 1996)
Virtua Fighter 3 running on SuperModel 3 emulator
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NeoGeoNinja
Shadow Warrior
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Post by NeoGeoNinja on Feb 10, 2013 14:15:20 GMT
By far my favourite fighting game, revolutionary arena system and breathtaking graphics for the time, still to be surpassed. REALLY COOL... that you feel this way, 15 years after it's release Nick  I think many PPL felt that VF3 was actually a slump in the VF franchise, but if I were honest, I never really had a real opinion on it. I had the DC version, but it never grabbed me like VF2 did. Now... I know that it's no secret that Genki handled the DC port and that it was met with mixed review, but I'll ask you (as you seem to have the most experience) - is there really THAT much disparity between how the DC and M3 versions play?I think another reason I didn't give VF3 the time it deserved, quite honestly, is because I had Soul Calibur and DOA2 when I got my DC and... I much preferred both those games at that time. Especially as I was still buzzing off the back of the Arcade originals of Soul Edge and Dead or Alive - two games I dearly loved. Especially DOA. That game was really special to me. It was the first time I'd played a 3D fighter in along while which I felt had BOTH the cool characters and great gameplay. It became my fave 3D fighter for years so, naturally, I was head over heels into DOA2 when it arrived... plus it looked phenomenal on release. I really believe the timing and release of Soul Calibur and later DOA2 had a lot to do with the popularity (or lack, thereof) of VF3 today. WITH REGARDS TO VF... as much as I respect your love for VF3, I had the exact same feeling and sentiment for the original VF4 when that came out. It blew me away. Everyone looked and played wonderfully and I was really impressed with what they'd done with the 4th in such an iconic series. But... arguably, 3 had actually done it first and had just been overlooked. But yeah, VF4 is where it was (and still is) at for me. Of course, VF4Evo was great too, unanimously preferred > 4 I imagine, but to me, VF4 took it too a maximum level I was really happy with before they started "toying" too heavily with the formula |
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Nick1984
'What a knucklehead!'
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Post by Nick1984 on Feb 10, 2013 14:22:00 GMT
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Nick1984
'What a knucklehead!'
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Posts: 1,815
Location:
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Post by Nick1984 on Feb 10, 2013 14:29:28 GMT
And don't get me started on the graphics, for a game that came out roughly the same time as Fighting Vipers on the Saturn it was a generation ahead of the consoles. PlayStation 2 graphics playable in 1996, it was the first glimpse of the next generation and even blew Mario 64 out of the water.  |
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Post by Syntesis on Feb 10, 2013 14:58:46 GMT
I think many PPL felt that VF3 was actually a slump in the VF franchise, but if I were honest, I never really had a real opinion on it. I had the DC version, but it never grabbed me like VF2 did. Now... I know that it's no secret that Genki handled the DC port and that it was met with mixed review, but I'll ask you (as you seem to have the most experience) - is there really THAT much disparity between how the DC and M3 versions play?In a word, no and the graphical deficiencies are really minor. IMO those "writers" back in the day who made it out that it was a bad port had an agenda because it's simply not true. These people used it as a stick to beat the Dreamcast with and it was 100% bs. Sure it could have done with a few more months of development to put in some of the missing effects and some more polygons for the fighters but it was a better port than any of those crappy Tekken games the British press seemed to love so much. Yes, I am still slightly bitter.  |
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Nick1984
'What a knucklehead!'
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Post by Nick1984 on Feb 10, 2013 15:02:08 GMT
To be fair it was graphically closer to its arcade original than VF2 on Saturn was. It's the fact that Dreamcast was capable of a perfect conversion that disappointed most.
Looks like SuperModel 3 can now perfectly emulate this in HD, so I'll be getting a new PC for this unless it's released on XBLA/PSN.
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NeoGeoNinja
Shadow Warrior
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Post by NeoGeoNinja on Feb 10, 2013 15:15:11 GMT
In a word, no and the graphical deficiencies are really minor. IMO those "writers" back in the day who made it out that it was a bad port had an agenda because it's simply not true. These people used it as a stick to beat the Dreamcast with and it was 100% bs. Sure it could have done with a few more months of development to put in some of the missing effects and some more polygons for the fighters but it was a better port than any of those crappy Tekken games the British press seemed to love so much. Yes, I am still slightly bitter. OK, FAIR ENOUGH SYNT... that's good to hear, because whenever I've played it, I've never had any issues with it... unlike their SEGA Rally 2 'effort'  Oh, Tekken's great btw. But then again, I love most fighting games. I've certainly ALWAYS loved my Tekkens, VF's and DOA's, with only DOA starting to fall off at 4 imo. But certainly, graphically speaking Tekken 3 and VF3 were not comparable, as Model 3 gfx were just obscene at the time... |
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Post by Syntesis on Feb 10, 2013 15:26:56 GMT
This was in reply to Nick: Definitely but given that Genki got it out in time for Japanese launch and at 60fps I think the flack they got was unwarranted especially as Sega themselves failed to accomplish either of these things with Sega Rally 2 and Sonic Adventure. Only if you played the arcade version a lot would you have been able to pick up on the graphical cutbacks. Really much ado about nothing. I really love the music in VF3. Taka's stage is my personal favourite. |
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Nick1984
'What a knucklehead!'
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Post by Nick1984 on Feb 10, 2013 15:29:55 GMT
3 best music tracks from the game
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Post by Syntesis on Feb 10, 2013 15:39:45 GMT
You are dead to me. Seriously though, the only Tekken game I have ever liked is TTT and that's probably down to its PHENOMENAL soundtrack. I might look into TTT2 because I really like what I have heard of its music (especially the school remix). Maybe that's shallow but if a fighting game has a good soundtrack then I will enjoy it enough to play it in single player. Watching Tekken competitive play will always be the video equivalent of a sleeping pill though. A whole of lot of shuffling back and forth and pokes until someone gets their dial-a-combo in.  |
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NeoGeoNinja
Shadow Warrior
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Post by NeoGeoNinja on Feb 10, 2013 15:54:54 GMT
Watching Tekken competitive play will always be the video equivalent of a sleeping pill though. A whole of lot of shuffling back and forth and pokes until someone gets their dial-a-combo in. OH SYNT... VF is just the same. Honestly, any of these 3D fighters today are as bad as one another. Even the 2D ones nowadays to be honest! A soon as VF allowed PPL to "float" in the air for extended amounts of time, allowing PPL to juggle you, not forgetting those lovely little moves that ACTUALLY scoop grounded opponents off the floor back into the air? Jabs keeping opponents in the air etc... it all went a bit awry, really. Just look at that video of Lau uppercutting a grounded Jeffry into a PPPK/PPPdK combo. 3D games are worse for it, and as such, I've never taken them as seriously as my 2D fighters as a result, although, like I said, 2D is catching up nicely to juggle combo 100% b*llshit. It's all f*cking laughable to be honest, eh? |
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Post by Syntesis on Feb 10, 2013 16:22:42 GMT
Not at all they are very different! VF is far more fast and aggressive than Tekken, there is really never a dull moment. It's all about getting in their face and not giving them time to think, dictating the match on your terms and reading what they will do next. There are some pretty crazy combos when walls are involved but it's not what is important unlike Tekken hence all the tentative shuffling back and forth, looking for a way in and being careful to not mess up as one mistake costs you half your life bar. Throws are also a lot more important in VF.
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NeoGeoNinja
Shadow Warrior
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Post by NeoGeoNinja on Feb 10, 2013 17:34:37 GMT
Not at all they are very different! VF is far more fast and aggressive than Tekken, there is really never a dull moment. It's all about getting in their face and not giving them time to think, dictating the match on your terms and reading what they will do next. There are some pretty crazy combos when walls are involved but it's not what is important unlike Tekken hence all the tentative shuffling back and forth, looking for a way in and being careful to not mess up as one mistake costs you half your life bar. Throws are also a lot more important in VF. C'MON SYNT... you can't seriously be so naive as to believe that I can't differentiate my fighters and think them all the same? Just because I enjoy my VF's and Tekkens don't mean I can't tell the difference! Jeez... However, what I am saying that you're defensive of thus far, is that both centralise a heavy reliance on juggling and cheap energy depletion through said technique. If they didn't, then they would give the characters heavier physics and allow off balance opponents to gracefully hit the deck... minus that 6-hit juggle and not allow them to be scooped up off the floor and re-combo'd! But, that'll never happen because that is what ALL 3D fighters are about I agree whole-heartedly with what you said re: VF btw, but they're all tied to the same brush when it comes to that all important(?) juggling 'technique' imo - different games or not... |
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Post by Syntesis on Feb 10, 2013 19:50:46 GMT
I just don't think the combos get in the way of the action in VF. While in Tekken they contribute to a slower more tentative match with players being a whole screen width apart and the bouncing off the floor thing happens all the time, in VF the risk of eating a 5 hit combo doesn't put off players from getting stuck in and it overall just seems saner.
I really think the two are chalk and cheese.
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Post by infernalcombustion on Feb 10, 2013 21:54:17 GMT
I really think the two are chalk and cheese. I couldn't agree more Syntesis. I actually consider Tekken and Virtua Fighter as different as Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat. Certainly on a superficial level they appear as similarly styled 3D fighting games, but the mechanics are very different. Sure, both have the same moon gravity floating and juggle opportunities, but I always felt that the rote style combo's of Tekken always let Namco's otherwise entertaining series down. I have an interview with the developers of the Tekken series somewhere, where the producer actually states that to try and emulate Virtua Fighters current sophistication (I think this was after the release of VF4) was akin to turning lead into gold and that they would continue building on their current game dynamics. Tekken is a successful series due to it's accessibility (and rightly so) and you won't hear me knocking it due to Sega fanboyism. However, it really is a different kettle of fish compared to Virtua Fighter. Anyway, I personally thought that the Dreamcast incarnation of VF3tb was sublime (even though it certainly isn't the best in the series IMO). The only major flaw was the lack of a proper versus mode. Incidentally, I'd vouch for Kage as my favorite character in VF3 - but I can't vote for him as he isn't in the roster above.  |
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