2d or not 2d that is the question.......

[rossi46]

LOL! None of the Saturn *3D* games are pretty....

[marc]

I think digichan (respect to your balanced overview, in stark contrast to mine) pointed out a few titles that kinda bust this myth..... shame some of the better looking 3-d titles never packed their toothbrush and came to europe. I am starting a new thread : Bernie stollar....get it off your chest......

[superdeadite]

For every 1 great 2D game, there are 10 shitty ones. And for every 1 great 3D game, there are also 10 shitty ones. What this tells me is that it comes down to the individual games themselves, and not how many dimensions they use.

I tend to play more 2D simply because simple 2D shooters, can be enjoyed in 20 min spurts, which is helpful due to my crappy work schedule. 3D games tend to take more time due to greater complexity.

This of course isn't always true. There are some really complex 2D games, and also some really fast and simple 3D ones. Any Saturn shooter fan needs to get a copy of Hudson's Bulk Slash, its free roaming 3D but feels like their PC-Engine shooters. A truly great game. ;D

[terramax]

Specifically with the Saturn, 2D all the way. Most 32bit 3D games from 1996-1998 had the worst controls EVER. And mostly was in Saturn games as opposed to PSX and N64.

Virtua Hydlide springs to mind. It should have been great. I like the visual style, it's spooky, gritty and gothic in places, but the main character is a complete SOB to control.

I severely dislike all FPS games on the Saturn. The word 'Robotica' is become a pseudonym for a terrible FPS - and it's a Saturn exclusive. Considering consoles have rarely been good for FPS games in general, the saturn was the worst of the bunch (that being said, I did used to play Hexen a lot back in the day).

Then there's draw distance. It was only after playing Daytona again a few years back I suddenly realised how horrendous it was. And it's far from the only 3D Saturn game be like this.

It was only with the death of the Saturn, around the time Spyro and Metal Gear Solid was released that developers were harnessing how to develop 3D controls smoothly.

Graphically, I've always been more partial to either 2D (Clockwork Knight, Guardian Heroes) or pre-rendered graphics. Even now I prefer pre-rendered games (Still Life) to 3D. Still, if 3D is done wekk it's always good. Not many for the Saturn though.

[Havoc]

I dont care if its 2D or 3D as long as its gameplay is good and the game is fun. My favorite game is in 3D, Shenmue, but i can spend hours playing 2D games like Sonic the Hedgehog. And not only in retro tittles, Sonic Rush for the Nintendo DS is in 2D and its still extremely addictive even now that 3D is dominating the market.

[rossi46]

I've been spending waay too much time playing the new Mario game on my son's DS. When he gats stuck on a level, he gets me to do it for him and ends up not getting the DS back for ages.

[martiniii]

I love both the 2D and 3D visuals for the Saturn. In my opinion, 2D never looked as good until the Saturn came around, and 3D has never looked as good since. The blocky, overly-smooth 3D of the Dreamcast always looked unpleasant to my eyes, and since then 3D has become too realistic looking; the art and beauty of graphics has been lost to a large extent. Not that I dislike the graphics of today's games, mind you; it's just that the Saturn was the high point.

[skippybiz]

On The fence also

[Yart]

Yea as long as the gameplay is good I'll play it. 2D or 3D.

HOWEVER! On the cosmetic side of things, I prefer LOOKING at 2D things as I find cartoony things very appealing.

I prefer when they use them appropriately though. I like 2D for my 2D platformers (Super Mario Bros.), and 3D for my 3D platformers (Super Mario 64).

I find the graphical style helps to give a better feel of what style the game is trying to pull off. It is important (budget games with 3D graphics because people are too cheap to animate some nice 2D sprites drive me nuts) to keeping the mood of the game. I find paper sprites even in a 3D game makes me feel like I'm playing a simple game for a quick blast.

Though one place I do say the choice is most important is when graphics are actually important to the gameplay itself. Doom woulda sucked if it was a corridor shooter, and shmups with 3D graphics suck because it's so dang hard to tell where your collision box is (especially when the angle of your ship is changed depending on where it is on the screen forcing you to become familiar of your collision box's location at different spots screwing you up because all the bullets are in 2D and the texture on your ship is so smooth there's no real distinct location marked as to where that darn hitbox can possibly be, and lighting only makes it more hellish to see!)

So for that reason, because I mainly play shmups and arcade style of games, I prefer 2D graphics. Also I find them a lot more appealing to the eyes. 3D tends to aim at realistic graphics and the last thing I wanna think about when I play a game is real life. Mind you, cartoony 3D like Megaman Legends for example on the PlayStation, is very awesome and suits the game well and sucks me into the world.


On that note, I say it entirely depends on what the developers do with 2D or 3D.

[ixisnaugus]

2D and 3D are like apples and oranges. Impossible to choose, great titles on both dimensions.
That said, if prodded, I'd have to say 3D, only because when the Saturn first came out the 3D was groundbreaking, even if it hasn't aged super well.

Short lists:
Favorite 2D titles:
Any Capcom fighter
Astal
Guardian Heroes

Favorite 3D titles:
Anything by AM2 or AM3
Anything by Sonic Team
Panzer Dragoon
Bug

[ixisnaugus]

Jul 3, 2007 18:23:26 GMT rossi46 said:

LOL! None of the Saturn *3D* games are pretty....

Oh I beg to differ. I -love- that kind of blocky polygonal 3D look of the Saturn. Like someone said above me, games now are too realistic looking. I'd have the graphics of the Saturn or N64 any day of the week over Halo 3 graphics or what not.

[clerksfan4life]

I do prefer 3d games but a lot of my favourites are 2d. I really like when games mix 2d and 3d. Whether it's 2d gameplay in a 3d world, 3d environments with sprites for items and characters or using 2d techniques to give the illusion of 3d. That's why the Saturn/PS1/N64 era is my favourite, because of the mix of styles and interesting methods. Now everything is either 2d OR 3d, with a few exceptions.

[martiniii]

Mar 16, 2010 16:33:55 GMT clerksfan4life said:

I do prefer 3d games but a lot of my favourites are 2d. I really like when games mix 2d and 3d. Whether it's 2d gameplay in a 3d world, 3d environments with sprites for items and characters or using 2d techniques to give the illusion of 3d. That's why the Saturn/PS1/N64 era is my favourite, because of the mix of styles and interesting methods. Now everything is either 2d OR 3d, with a few exceptions.

Yeah, I love mixtures of 2D and 3D too. So many terrific concepts, such as the rotating spiral staircases in Clockwork Knight 2, don't make sense in either 2D or 3D - only when you mix the two.

[grolt]

When I first got my Saturn all I wanted was 3D games. When I got ASTAL instead of BUG! as my bonus game with the console purchase, I was pretty miffed. Fifteen years later, though, and it's the 2D games like ASTAL or the Working Designs games that really hold up. The 3D then was just too primitive - it looks like a work in progress today rather than a polished final product like say ASTAL or GUARDIAN HEROES. I do think there are some excellent examples, though, of the Saturn using the best of both worlds on games like SHINING THE HOLY ARK or VIRTUA FIGHTER 2, where the mix of both 2D and 3D made a near seemless graphical experience. Using 3D for all the dungeon worlds in SHINING and the 2D for all the character sprites worked beautifully, and the opposite, using 2D for the backgrounds and hires 3D for the characters in VF2 was executed with similar prowess.

While I certainly have an affinity for the early 3D games like VIRTUA FIGHTER or PANZER DRAGOON, I still can't deny that today they have a dated, retro look. ASTAL, though, you could screencap and throw up on your wall and it would still look like art.

[tempest]

I don't really have a preference between 2D and 3D. As long as the game works well on an aesthetic level, the style of graphics are irrelevant. I do find a lot of 3D games, especially modern ones, feel empty compared to 2D games, whose visuals and environments appear to be brimming with life. Back in the Saturn/PS1/N64 generation it might have been excusable to have empty 3D environments, but not these days.

I definitely find that 2D games (from the Mega Drive and Saturn eras) tend to age better than a lot of 3D games.