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Post by edwithmj on Jul 20, 2008 0:38:08 GMT
I'm sorry but the Tekken games are miles better than the VF games. I never got into the VF games but o me the controls were fiddly and the moves weren't as good.
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Post by ShenmueAddict on Jul 20, 2008 1:32:28 GMT
I'm sorry but the Tekken games are miles better than the VF games. I never got into the VF games but o me the controls were fiddly and the moves weren't as good. sorry but Tekken just sucks compared to VF
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Snowcat.
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Post by Snowcat. on Jul 20, 2008 8:20:23 GMT
I'm sorry but the Tekken games are miles better than the VF games. I never got into the VF games but o me the controls were fiddly and the moves weren't as good. sorry but Tekken just sucks compared to VF But there both so slow.....Mortal Kombat now thats where its at ....Certain characters in both games move like turtles with 3 feet :/
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Post by RallyDon82 on Jul 20, 2008 10:53:03 GMT
(pines yet again for a saturn version of VF3) *sigh* oh did someone mention tekken?, excuse me whilst i go throw up all over a psone.
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Post by chizzles on Jul 22, 2008 18:16:15 GMT
Watching you people argue about VF3 vs Tekken is like roto-sawing my own dick off and shoving it into my eye.
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Post by Anthaemia. on Jul 22, 2008 19:16:39 GMT
VF3 vs Tekken? No contest! VF3 vs Tekken 3, on the other hand... who am I kidding? Virtua Fighter 3 all the way!!
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mick_aka
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Post by mick_aka on Jul 22, 2008 22:22:20 GMT
Soul Calibur also PWNS Tekken.
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Post by Anthaemia. on Jul 23, 2008 7:56:15 GMT
Virtua Fighter 3 proved such a huge leap forward from its predecessor that most fans were put off, hence the long wait and eventual decision to adopt a simpler approach for its sequel. Even today, with only Genki's less-than-perfect Dreamcast conversion as its legacy and very few arcades (outside of Japan, at least) still featuring cabinets, it's no surprise most gamers don't treat VF3 with the respect it deserves. I can only begin to imagine what AM2 may have done next had VF3 been the commercial success Namco experienced with Tekken 3, despite that game not being quite as revolutionary in comparison to its main rival. Instead, the series lost momentum, its creative visionary and - worst of all - didn't really make the shift from one generation to the next. Tekken may have taken a while to get started, but new VF titles are now generally regarded to be higher definition updates of past glories. Hardcore fans still love every new game, though I can just about tolerate VF4 Evolution. After that, I'd rather wait for the (unlikely) return of Yu Suzuki, as without his guidance this once landmark franchise has grown stale in my opinion. At least it's still much faster than Namco's offerings, although I should point out that Soul Calibur and Tekken Tag Tournament have places in my collection before anyone suggests that I may have a problem with anything not produced by Sega. Actually, can anybody think of a game released around this same era close to VF3 in terms of innovation? I'd suggest the relatively obscure Fighting Bujutsu from Konami or perhaps even Takara's similarly underrated D-Xhird, yet neither really compares apart from on a purely technical level. How about Dead Or Alive 2 or Ehrgeiz at a push, maybe? Power Stone 2 might be too far removed from the basic genre to warrant any notable comparison, and while something of a fan it's probably not best that I suggest Mortal Kombat Gold in this context... Of course, I could always mention 2D alternatives to really crack open a proverbial can of worms!
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Post by chizzles on Jul 23, 2008 10:48:27 GMT
What is so different about VF4 other than the fact it has removed the undulating terrain?
The undnulating terrain was removed to make competitions more fair, because the low-ground vs high-ground disadvantage was irritating a lot of players.
You can still evade around the opponents, it just no longer has it's own dedicated button.
I personally accept that VF3 was revolutionary, however I still do not like the game.
If we take the atmosphere created by Vf2's music and environment design - the atmosphere is energetic, vibrant and harsh. None of that atmosphere translated over to VF3, which has a calm... relaxed atmosphere.
I believe this is why many gamers did not like the game.
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Post by Anthaemia. on Jul 25, 2008 8:16:37 GMT
I've been having a truly fascinating discussion with Chisorasu regarding the more technical aspects of Saturn Virtua Fighter 3 and whether or not it really was as good as it's been claimed, so hopefully you can appreciate some of the more interesting points raised in this way.
First of all, it should be noted that Virtua Fighter (yes, the rough-looking original) actually displayed more polygons than Fighters Megamix and even VF2, but you'd never tell because of the minor flaws that detract from this otherwise impressive early Saturn graphical showcase. With a little extra time in the proverbial oven, there's no reason why AM2 couldn't have reproduced VF1 polygon-for-polygon, and maybe they could have even surpassed the Model 1 source, much as they later did with VF2. Despite having lower detailed player models and significantly reduced backgrounds, the fact is that VF2 managed to look great to most Saturn owners, boasting a higher resolution than the arcade machine without sacrificing its frame rate.
Fighting Vipers, Fighters Megamix and the unreleased Sonic The Fighters conversion signalled a move to lower polygonal detail with more emphasis on lighting effects, which helped to mask the overall drop in quality over past games. Vipers even boasted Gouraud shading, though since this was dropped in later projects I've no reason to assume this would be making a return for VF3, especially if we use the Shenmue prototype footage as direct indication of what AM2 had in store with VF3. With its first revision (supposedly) built on the same engine as Megamix, we can use the desert stage as it was featured in that game to provide a more realistic target of how VF3 may have looked on Saturn.
However, following its rejection (on 03/07/98 according to internal documentation) the programmers at AM2 knew they needed something even better and subsequently treated VF3 to a facelift using new techniques. In the past claims have been made linking AM2 with the third version of Sega's own graphics libraries, but from leaked copies it seems this would have been available back in 1996 to external developers so it's not a stretch to presume Yu Suzuki's team had access to this much earlier. With no reports of SGL OS 4 existing, this means either there was some other tool doing the rounds or perhaps AM2 was using its own routines for VF3 and Shenmue. Digital Dance Mix is supposedly more like the higher-detailed polygon models of VF3 in its second revision incarnation, though even with the return of fully 3D backgrounds would this even come close to approaching the oft-quoted 750k figure?
In my conversations with Chisorasu, we've both concluded this probably wasn't the case. For example, is there any way the streets of Yokusuka would have been so empty had Shenmue been completed on the Saturn, or were there plans for crowds and all the various building details as seen in the final Dreamcast version? We can't say much with just access to the prototype video, but it seems as if the actual polygon count for Shenmue was closer to 100k - still not bad when you consider that other later games such as Panzer Dragoon Saga and Burning Rangers were in similar levels of performance with more effects present. Do you see many transparent polygons or complex lighting routines in the Shenmue teaser? VF3 may have featured some degree of character shading, light sourcing and transparency (the latter for its water effects and to fade parts of a stage when they obscure the fight view), but Shenmue appears to be running at roughly 12-15fps without many great achievements other than perhaps some quite impressive texturing here or there. Even then, you have to look hard to find any evidence of the record-shattering quality boasted in the past.
This entire thread has the potential to "snowball" for a long while to come just yet, and I seriously doubt we've seen the end of speculation as to whether or not VF3/Shenmue really did look that great on the Saturn. Better than past AM2 games or Saturn titles in general? Maybe, but polygon counts 10x that of previous software with various processor-intensive effects present (even at the cost of frame rate and resolution)? Hmm...
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Snowcat.
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Post by Snowcat. on Jul 25, 2008 9:17:23 GMT
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Nick1984
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Post by Nick1984 on Aug 3, 2008 19:57:08 GMT
Where are the VF3 screens, can't see them on that site!
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Nick1984
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Post by Nick1984 on Aug 3, 2008 19:59:18 GMT
Here's VF3 running on a crap Model 3 emulator. Hope they weren't confused to be a Saturn version
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Post by ajmetz on Aug 3, 2008 20:09:23 GMT
VF1 always looked crap to me, due to the basic graphics. VF2 looked more impressive, but didn't appeal to me as a game. Fighters Megamix? Was amazing - and clearly the only beat 'em up game I'd ever need for my Saturn. =P Why play Virtua Fighter? Why play Fighting Vipers? FM was both in one! With added VF3 moves, for the Virtual Cop character (plus the escape button for everyone)...there were even some Sonic Fighters, and a Daytona Car in there. What more could one possibly want?
I've been very happy with Megamix. =)
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Post by ajmetz on Aug 3, 2008 20:14:34 GMT
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