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Post by davyk on May 17, 2023 11:18:02 GMT
Doom 64 was great, I really liked that about the N64 how even when it got its own version of games they were often "remixed" or different somehow, you never see anything like that now since all the consoles are basically just the same PC architecture. Agreed. So many games now getting built in engines like Unity for example. Sure, it's great that they can produce games quicker and port them quicker but we are losing some individuality across platforms. Doom64 was great because its levels were all new - not rehashes of the PC ones that had to be stripped down to work on consoles. It created a great atmosphere too. There's a great interview with the devs online - the cart size meant they lost some of the enemies and a 2 player mode which is a shame..
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Post by Team Andromeda on May 17, 2023 11:27:17 GMT
Mario 64 was the first time I was properly impressed by 3D. It wasn't "corridored" like so many 3D games of the time in which despite appearances it was very limited re where you could go and you were steered to go a particular way. With M64 you could go "round the back" of things and go anywhere within the bounds of the level. The simpler abstract look was the price of that of course but that means it has aged a bit more gracefully than its contemporaries. Doom has that feel too but of course it wasn't real 3D - it was just a clever illusion (albeit a highly immersive one). I remember liking Battlezone from way back and some old driving games like Pole Position that created a 3D look.. It was good enough to immerse you in the game but I never saw them as superior to really good 2D games. Always saw it as a bit of a novelty. To be fair 3D games with a lot of freedom was starting to come on the Amiga and ST. I was a ST owner and was getting very impressed with the 3D polygon worlds and knew it was the future. The trouble was back the many would always look to praise the Japanese and not give credit the what Western and European developers were doing for 3D and polygons . Robocop 3 and Hunter were like a open world games, before anyone knew what that was. So amazing for the time and the systems they were working on and also the developers had none of the staff numbers to the major Japanese studios
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Post by davyk on May 17, 2023 12:25:43 GMT
Amiga and ST simply wouldn't have had the heft to render the experience M64 gave - that processor speed - just shy of 100MHz was unheard of at the time. What I really hated about early 3D was that it was a shuffling, ugly mess. It was simply far too ambitious for the platforms to handle outside of a demo. Even much of PS1 and Saturn's early efforts fall into that category. Tomb Raider did nothing for me. It was ugly and I didn't feel any connect with the avatar when moving about. The control in M64 - even just the feeling of messing about in front of the castle - there hadn't been anything remotely as good.
Subsequent reduxes, emulations and cleanups of M64 haven't really added anything to that original experience. Was a titanic achievement solving many of the problems of navigating in 3D while retaining an arcade feel. It was further enhanced with Zelda's Z-targeting but from the off everything was pretty much spot on. It was a repeat of how Miyomoto pretty much perfected the 2D scrolling platformer first go with SMB.
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Post by Team Andromeda on May 17, 2023 13:13:42 GMT
The Likes of Hunter was coming out in 1991, NCL didn't even know what 3D was back then and also needed to raid UK talent to get any sort of 3D into Star Fox. The Hunter was fully 3D and really open Mario 64 was amazing at the start, but I began to tire of it. I really thought Mario Kart 64 and Pilotwings 64 were better games
F29 Retaliator on the ST and StarBlade in the Arcades had an impact on like no other 3D game, well other than Panzer Dragoon
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Post by buckoa51 on May 17, 2023 14:03:29 GMT
Hunter was great for its time and far from ugly or too ambitious to be playable, so were early 3D titles like Mercenary or Midwinter 2. Not sure I could go back to titles like Driller or Castle Master on the C64 that I did play at the time mind. They were far from being action platformers like Mario 64 was though.
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Post by davyk on May 17, 2023 14:59:27 GMT
MK64 was a bit of a disappointment for me. It felt slow which was its first sin. The PAL port was butchered. And it was dog ugly too. It felt a bit empty after the marvellous original. I did play it quite a bit and unlocked everything but I just felt let down a bit. A lot of that could have come from the hype around it - it was never going to live up to being a sequel to such a famous game.
I've since come to appreciate it a bit more but it's the lesser entry in the series for me. I know it's well loved by many as it was so many people's first experience and the 4 player modes helped with that. I'd actually like to see it remastered as most of its tracks had brilliant design (we do get to play them again in the later games of course).
I'm afraid something like Hunter is everything I hate about that era. A jerky ugly, flat mess. All in the eye of the beholder. Just exactly the type of game I hated back then and hate even more now. But I can see how people loved it, especially if looking for something more than an arcade style of game. And for the time it is impressive technically. Just not for me.
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Post by Team Andromeda on May 18, 2023 9:12:09 GMT
Never played a Pal N64 so can't comment. Mario Kart 64 was ace for me lovely graphics and half decent frame rate, it remains my fav in the series
Also in 1991 I wasn't used too or expected super smooth polygons in the Arcades or the home, but was well impressed with the freedom the game offered. Jimmy White Snooker was the 1st time I really saw super smooth polygons in the home, it was so amazing at the time.
RIP Archer Maclean
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Post by davyk on May 18, 2023 13:16:24 GMT
I have the JP version of MK64 now and it does look and play better but it's still no looker.... The tracks look good but those blurry scaling sprites on the racers are brutal looking. The handling is great though esp. in NTSC - I prefer it as a TT game. Would like to have seen what job would have been made of it post Diddy Kong Racing which was a superb game but not that hot as an MP racer. I've moved most of my N64 collection to NTSC now with a preference for JP boxes when I can get them. Maclean was a genius. 2D and 3D. Loved his Dropzone. His snooker game was a miracle of the time. I suspect it still stands up today.
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Post by buckoa51 on May 18, 2023 14:51:11 GMT
and IK+, still the best fighting game that's not a Street Fighter clone
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Post by davyk on May 19, 2023 9:40:44 GMT
Some of the early Atari 3D was impressive for the time. There's the wireframe stuff like Battlezone, Tempest and Star Wars but I really like the flat clean looks of some early poly games like Virtua Racer.
I, Robot on the Atari 50 compilation is an interesting looking game. It could be played as a 2D game but 3D does make the game more compelling. Again it has that clean untextured look that I like.
It's probably why I like Daytona so much - it's a very clean looking game. I just love the look of it.
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FRS Robotnik
Advanced Saturn Gamer
Joined: August 2016
Posts: 496
Location:
XBL: FRS Robotnik
PSN: SuperTourer0911
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Post by FRS Robotnik on Jul 3, 2023 18:43:07 GMT
I loved it at the time & whilst looking back it can be pulled apart critically by some, I think you have to be impressed that they got the game running as well as they did on a system that couldn't really handle it.
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Post by Team Andromeda on Jul 4, 2023 16:21:09 GMT
I loved it at the time & whilst looking back it can be pulled apart critically by some, I think you have to be impressed that they got the game running as well as they did on a system that couldn't really handle it. Games are never made to be judge on how they play or look in 20 years time. I've never really got this 'aged badly' At the time it was so impressive to get the game on any console and the fact that the Saturn version was so close and good to play was a miracle by Lobotomy I loved the light and the music was something else, I also loved the VDP2 clouds. I really wished at the time Lobotomy were given the task of porting Half Life to the DC. They would have done a far better job IMO than Captivation Digital
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FRS Robotnik
Advanced Saturn Gamer
Joined: August 2016
Posts: 496
Location:
XBL: FRS Robotnik
PSN: SuperTourer0911
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Post by FRS Robotnik on Jul 6, 2023 6:39:37 GMT
I fully agree - even the best games from back then could be pulled apart critically today. Quake was one of the best.
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Post by Team Andromeda on Jul 6, 2023 13:48:23 GMT
I fully agree - even the best games from back then could be pulled apart critically today. Quake was one of the best. Look at something like Tomb Raider or Resident Evil. At the time they were incredible and an amazing experience, these days the controls are a pain in the ass, but that's missing the point. No game is made on how it will be judged in 20 years time At the time just getting Quake on a console was amazing, never mind at how good it looked and played. I used to love playing that game late and night on my Saturn. The music used to make me so scared at times LOL
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FRS Robotnik
Advanced Saturn Gamer
Joined: August 2016
Posts: 496
Location:
XBL: FRS Robotnik
PSN: SuperTourer0911
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Post by FRS Robotnik on Jul 6, 2023 18:59:43 GMT
I fully agree - even the best games from back then could be pulled apart critically today. Quake was one of the best. Look at something like Tomb Raider or Resident Evil. At the time they were incredible and an amazing experience, these days the controls are a pain in the ass, but that's missing the point. No game is made on how it will be judged in 20 years time At the time just getting Quake on a console was amazing, never mind at how good it looked and played. I used to love playing that game late and night on my Saturn. The music used to make me so scared at times LOL Saw someone tear apart Tomb Raider on the Saturn. Ludicrous, I still thoroughly enjoy playing it. A masterpiece at the time.
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