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Post by Team Andromeda on Dec 19, 2023 12:09:02 GMT
I also have to say that while the frame rate is poor SEGA Touring Car is pushing a ton of polygons and getting little help from the VDP2 its really impressive at times. Which makes you wonder why the didn’t just remove a lot of the geometry. The game runs quite smoothly during qualifying with no other cars on track where as it falls apart during the Brick Wall Town stage, largely in part due to all the buildings being rendered. I agree and the In-Car rear view mirror should have been dropped to help with performance. I just felt the game was rushed out to make it out for the Christmas 1997 date when it should have been held back for a few months... Also have to say Zero Divide has some wonderful 3D graphics
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marc
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Post by marc on Dec 20, 2023 8:54:53 GMT
Small mention for stellar assault ss. Whilst not an amazing looking game I’m still impressed by the 3D and how smooth it is, especially upscaled at max resolution, plus it’s 60fps. not a gem, but well worth a play if you like space shooters. Panzer dragoon in space. m.youtube.com/watch?v=XQQ3LvwiPHc
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Post by Team Andromeda on Dec 21, 2023 5:55:18 GMT
Yeah, I like Stellar Assault. It is so clean and smooth and some of the latter levels make great use of the VDP2.
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segafan2000
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Post by segafan2000 on Mar 30, 2024 18:01:31 GMT
Love the trick they use for the indoor stages of Last Bronx, essentially the same clever background layer warping that Virtua Fighter 2 used for the rings, but now two of them. Excellent stuff and it usually lines up quite well.
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thebtmaniac
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Post by thebtmaniac on Apr 7, 2024 2:08:14 GMT
I know the game isn't a Saturn exclusive, but I'm really impressed by what Argonaut Software did with Croc. Yes, it is a very "segmented" platformer, but I love the aesthetics, and I wish Croc II was ported over to the Saturn, as well. His character design is just perfect, in my opinion.
Panzer Dragoon Saga and Zwei are great 3D games. Nights into Dreams is also gorgeous - although I think when you're on the ground, the landscape looks a little strange.
I think Burning Rangers objectively has the most going for it of any 3-D game: real-time lighting, polygonal transparencies (I assume they custom built a triangular render in software?), fully 3-D environment, fully 3-D characters, etc.
If we're including games like Grandia, then I'll also suggest any game made using the SlaveDriver engine like PowerSlave (Exumed) and Hexen. In a different timeline the Saturn port of Doom should have been the best console port out there.
Sonic R is great. It looks like a Rare or Nintendo-level production. I desperately wish TT and Team Sonic collaborated on an actual Sonic title.
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segafan2000
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Post by segafan2000 on Apr 8, 2024 19:18:17 GMT
I think Burning Rangers objectively has the most going for it of any 3-D game: real-time lighting, polygonal transparencies (I assume they custom built a triangular render in software?), fully 3-D environment, fully 3-D characters, etc. Burning Rangers at the time was the least Saturn looking 3D games on the console, being fully 3D with lighting and transparencies it looked more like a PlayStation (or even N64) game. It’s the most impressive game on the system and possibly an indication of what games could look like if developers continued to support the system. Gorgeous stuff
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thebtmaniac
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Post by thebtmaniac on Apr 8, 2024 23:08:33 GMT
It's a shame that Sonic Team was so protective of their source code and custom-built engine; I understand the sentiment, but you're working for a first party developer, and you're not even sharing the code to the benefit of your own company. Part of Sonic X was being built off of the Nights engine until the Team Sonic leadership threatened to quit.
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segafan2000
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Post by segafan2000 on Apr 8, 2024 23:50:06 GMT
It's a shame that Sonic Team was so protective of their source code and custom-built engine; I understand the sentiment, but you're working for a first party developer, and you're not even sharing the code to the benefit of your own company. Part of Sonic X was being built off of the Nights engine until the Team Sonic leadership threatened to quit. Sonic Xtreme releasing for Christmas 96 would have been pivotal to Saturn’s success (or at least survival), I don’t think they’d have come anywhere close to that date working with an engine handed down from Sonic Team.
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FRS Robotnik
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Post by FRS Robotnik on Apr 19, 2024 16:54:44 GMT
It get so little credit. I really think Die Hard Arcade is one of the best looking Saturn games. Super solid 3D graphics with no break up and some of the best texture mapping in any Saturn or PS game for that matter That was decent.
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Post by Team Andromeda on Apr 20, 2024 7:21:35 GMT
It's a shame that Sonic Team was so protective of their source code and custom-built engine; I understand the sentiment, but you're working for a first party developer, and you're not even sharing the code to the benefit of your own company. Part of Sonic X was being built off of the Nights engine until the Team Sonic leadership threatened to quit. Thats just internet spin. Sonic X was mess from start to finish and the real reason it was canned was because the game was poor and no NiGHTS debugging tools was going to change that or make a game that never had a single level finished and fully playable (with all correct enemy placements) make a fall 96 date. And it also showed how little Bernie knew about SEGA Japan. SOJ never shared engines between their own AM teams never mind looking to allow a western team to handle their code. Not that a game that was over 2 years in development and being made by 'apparently' an elite In-House USA team should ever needed to look outside for engine tech, shameful and embarrassing for the STI team IMO The real sad part was having Sonic Adv moved up to DC production. I bet it was a real showcase for the Saturn and would have liked it we had a Saturn version and then a DC version at a later date, but I get why the call was made in 97 to move to DC production.
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thebtmaniac
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Post by thebtmaniac on Apr 20, 2024 17:22:11 GMT
It's a shame that Sonic Team was so protective of their source code and custom-built engine; I understand the sentiment, but you're working for a first party developer, and you're not even sharing the code to the benefit of your own company. Part of Sonic X was being built off of the Nights engine until the Team Sonic leadership threatened to quit. Thats just internet spin. Sonic X was mess from start to finish and the real reason it was canned was because the game was poor and no NiGHTS debugging tools was going to change that or make a game that never had a single level finished and fully playable (with all correct enemy placements) make a fall 96 date. And it also showed how little Bernie knew about SEGA Japan. SOJ never shared engines between their own AM teams never mind looking to allow a western team to handle their code. Not that a game that was over 2 years in development and being made by 'apparently' an elite In-House USA team should ever needed to look outside for engine tech, shameful and embarrassing for the STI team IMO The real sad part was having Sonic Adv moved up to DC production. I bet it was a real showcase for the Saturn and would have liked it we had a Saturn version and then a DC version at a later date, but I get why the call was made in 97 to move to DC production. If Sonic Team cared more about the success of the company than their own egos, they could have worked out a deal; like it or not, the Saturn needed a Sonic title in N. America to have any remote chance of succeeding or getting a second wind, and several members of ST already stated they wanted to work on different projects so STI was the natural choice. I don't consider it "internet spin." It's just two vastly different corporate cultures that couldn't put the product first. At that point, you should swallow your pride, and work out a deal to at least give the American team a chance. We have some boss level demos from Sonic Xtreme using the Nights engine. They seem fun enough. We have no clue what progress would have been made if they were given another year on a functioning engine. STI was instrumental in making the Genesis competitive in North America. The Genesis sales figures were directly correlated to the Sonic franchise in America. Letting the team flounder and then withdrawing a life raft was just a stupid decision. Sonic has always been difficult to translate to 3D. ST still struggles to this day to get it right. There were tons of growing pains during the 5th gen trying to translate old games to the new dimension, and a 3D platformer entirely based on speed mechanics is a tall order for any 5th generation machine. Look at Konami's first forays into 3D. The American team didn't have access to the hardware developers in Japan. I can't exactly fault them when SOJ and SOA were basically refusing to cooperate on a project even of this magnitude. It's like Nintendo just accepting two different first party teams not completing a Mario project.
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Post by Team Andromeda on Apr 21, 2024 8:30:30 GMT
It's internet spin and the stuff that you should leave on System 16 along with SEGA Japan being anti USA. Sonic X was a mess from start to finish and the real reason it was dropped was that the game did not come up to standard and no amount of NiGHTS tools was ever going to fix and change that.
Like I said on system 16. SEGA should have dropped the Mega Drive in 1994 and focused on Saturn and I wouldn't have given Sonic Team any choice in the matter and they would have to make a Sonic game and then after you had done a major 3D Sonic game work on their dream project, but a major Sonic 3D was not going to be ready until 1996 even if Sonic Team were making it
I would have liked to saw SEGA remake Sonic CD for the Western launch of the Saturn just with all new 3D bonus sections, fancy 2D sprite effects and full screen Cinepak FMV.
SEGA America's handling of the 32-bit era was shocking. STI weren't up to speed and couldn't handle 32-bit production, The Multi Media Studio a complete waste of time and money, contrast to what a little tiny studio like CORE Design was doing in the UK. They put out a lovely 3D Helicopter sim and made one of the most influence 3D games of all time with their own tech and own tools and in 1995/6 Core Design was a very small studio with less than 10 staff working on the likes of Tomb Raider or Thunderhawk 2
While the muppets at STI couldn't handle 3D and looked to use NiGHTS debug tools and level editor. A total shambles and just embarrassing
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