|
|
Post by TrekkiesUnite118 on May 1, 2009 3:34:52 GMT
I thought this would be something nice to talk about. Here we can discuss games for the Saturn that we feel in graphics, sound, and gameplay have aged very well over the years. So list one 3D game and one 2D game that you feel have aged well for the Saturn and state why.
Mine:
3D: Virtual On
While yes it's not arcade perfect, it's art style has made it so to this day it still looks decent. You can tell whats going on, the graphics are still crisp and clear, the draw distance is still good, and two player is very playable still without any really issues.
2D: Street Fighter Alpha 3
Still one of the best ports in existence after numerous rereleases.
|
|
|
|
Post by Yart on May 1, 2009 6:52:26 GMT
3D: Croc
It looks pretty dang good even today. I remember playing this way back on the PlayStation when it first came out and it still looks just as good now. The characters are well animated and everything looks of high quality. Sure there's some shortcuts taken like instead of some objects being 3D balls, they're just circle sprites but they're fairly well done. Also if I remember correctly, even on wide open levels there was no fog... then again I haven't played it in a while. I could be wrong.
2D: Pocket Fighter
I wanted to stay away from shmups this time around (you know what title I wanted to blurt out) and pick an eyecandy fighting game instead. Pocket Fighter provides tons of sprites, awesome usage of colour, decent animation (not the smoothest but still pretty good) and would even look good on an Xbox 360 in my honest opinion. It's the best you can get for 2D for it's resolution. It also lacks pixelation.
|
|
|
|
Post by termis on May 1, 2009 16:13:04 GMT
I honestly can't many 3D Saturn games that has aged superbly. Virtual On... Yeah, I love the game, but it's far surpassed by it's sequel (Of the series, I think VO:OT is the one that truly maintains its edge to date)
VF2? Again, outdone by its sequels on newer gen machines...
Sega Rally popped up in my mind for a bit, but then... Yeah, plays nice... But it's rather ugly by today's standards. (Well, even back then, I thought that GT1's rally scene graphics blew this one away).
Ah, I do still like a bout of Last Bronx once in a while. Red Eye is one bad mofo!
And for a 2D game, I was also thinking SFZ3. Still a fantastic looking game today.
|
|
Snowcat.
A cat made of snow.
Joined: March 2008
Posts: 1,406
Location:
|
Post by Snowcat. on May 1, 2009 20:20:44 GMT
I dont think many games have aged well for the Saturn, I agree with Croc, it does look good. but i dont think many games from the entire gen aged well.
|
|
mick_aka
Kickin' it lively!
"Mick is moderately adequate."
Joined: April 2007
Posts: 9,817
Location:
XBL: mickloaf
PSN: mickloaf
Nintendo ID: segamick
|
Post by mick_aka on May 1, 2009 22:29:09 GMT
Graphically allot of the Saturn's 2D fighters have held up VERY well indeed after all this time.
I think all the above posters are considering game PURELY based on graphical quality, and I honestly believe that the gameplay of many of the Saturn's SHMUPS, Figters and RPGs still give many of today's titles a good run for their money in the gameplay department. If this was not the case I wouldn't play on my Saturn as much as I do.
I've completed Gears of War once, and never even has the remotest inclination to go back to it, I've completed Exhumed three times this year alone, nuff said.
|
|
|
|
Post by Anthaemia. on May 1, 2009 23:12:30 GMT
I'm going to agree with Street Fighter Zero 3 as the finest sprite-based game on Saturn, but my polygonal title of choice is surprisingly Athlete Kings.
|
|
rossi46
#LFGM!
Joined: June 2007
Posts: 2,769
Location:
|
Post by rossi46 on May 2, 2009 7:15:37 GMT
Panzer Dragoon Zwei still looks acceptible IMO. So does Nights. I reckon if you're able to look at these games with the same frame of mind that you did ten years ago then they still look the same as they did back then. Just don't think of your 360 at the same time....  |
|
|
|
Post by grolt on May 3, 2009 6:37:23 GMT
NiGHTS still looks as beautiful as ever, much better than the Wii sequel in my mind. Sure, polygons are much smoother today, but it was the use of color in the original NiGHTS that really set it apart. Like other games that have aged well on previous Sega consoles, namely Fantasy Zone, Space Harrier and Alex Kidd: The Lost Stars, it all comes down to Sega's near psychedelic use of color. It's a visual cornucopia with those games, and NiGHTS certainly pushes it to the limit. The way NiGHTS combined all those sprites with the polygonal worlds really helped keep the visual flourish, too.
In the same way, the original Bug! still holds up graphically because the polygonal levels were designed without any curved edges, so the structures still hold up today. The rendered sprites, especially that first snail boss, still look quite impressive.
Other 3D games that certainly hold up graphically:
Panzer Dragoon Saga
Sonic R
Shining the Holy Ark
Sonic Jam
The House of the Dead (Kidding!)
As for 2D, that's something that doesn't age nearly as bad as the early polygonal games do. The Legend of Oasis looks great, but there were some bits of slow down for me. The game that still looks the lushest, for my money, is Astal. A beautiful, beautiful game.
|
|
|
|
Post by Yart on May 4, 2009 6:05:36 GMT
...The game that still looks the lushest, for my money, is Astal. A beautiful, beautiful game. OH DEAR GOODNESS... Change my vote. I completely forgot about that game. Does it ever look beautiful! |
|
|
|
Post by marx on May 5, 2009 10:36:14 GMT
The interesting thing about this topic, is the Saturn was a 2d Power House {which we all know}. It came out when 2d was at its peak, meanwhile 3d was creeping in, so logically 2d hasn't really evolved to much since then.
But 3d was in its' infancy, a lot of the best games on the Saturn are 2d games, that's what makes the system still viable today. You could play PSX or N64 games, but in comparison that 3d generation would be similar to Atari 2600's 2d, or to compare it to film, it would be similar to silent black&white.... Meanwhile the 2d generation at that time was well nourished and grown. (This is in no way a diss to the N64 or PSX, just my thoughts)
*Sorry I have this rant whenever I discuss my Saturn love with my friends*
3d game: I think 'Athlete Kings' is a great answer, but I'm going to say 'Vurtua Cop 2'... Simply because I can sit a child in front of it, they still enjoy it {Yes when I watch children, I just sit them down with guns and go do something}. I also feel Enemy Zero holds up pretty well... I would love to play it again, but I'm missing my first disc....? I have 0, 2, & 3.... Its infuriating.
2d game: Really anything...Uh... Earthworm Jim 2, Megaman 8?... I'd love to play Assault Suites...
|
|
|
|
Post by digichan on May 9, 2009 22:55:14 GMT
Other 3D games that certainly hold up graphically: Shining the Holy Ark haha.. STHA.. playing it now.. I've never thought this was a looker as those pre-rendered enemy sprites (I guess are an aquired taste) but I thought apart from the smooth first person dungeon view all the sprites are just butt ugly.. Grandia Dead or Alive Panzer Dragoon Zwei Athlete Kings Winter Heat still look decent too |
|
|
|
Post by saturnboy on May 13, 2009 10:58:15 GMT
Most of the break through graphics of games around the 90's like Tekken, Virtual fighter, Zero Divide and Battle Arena Toshinden with their new Polygon based graphics seemed almost dated when they first arrived imo I mean come on 16bit 2D fighters like Street Fighter Super and King of Fighters where great to look at, and I feel have stood up to the test of time. I think 2D titles will always stand the test of time better than their 3D counter parts imo anyway  |
|
|
|
Post by Anthaemia. on May 13, 2009 21:21:27 GMT
Sega originally wanted to market the Saturn as a 2D powerhouse, but the imminent PlayStation forced a rethink of this strategy that ultimately resulted in a hasty redesign that made the final hardware more complex than it really needed to be, which further alienated programmers that weren't already happy with the company's pro-sprite stance in the wake of a 3D revolution led by - ironically enough - Virtua Racing and Virtua Fighter. Plenty of developers were quick to follow Sega's lead by churning out second-rate takes on the groundbreaking titles being produced by Sega in 1993, but only a handful continued pushing the 2D envelope in spite of this being the Saturn's real strength. When something new did emerge in two dimensions, PlayStation owners naturally received the weaker version (as with the later VS games by Capcom) not because of any major technical limitations but Sony's insistence that nobody would care anymore.
Meanwhile, back on the Saturn, Capcom in particular was supporting the 4Mb RAM upgrade cartridge to reproduce its CPS2 back catalogue with pixel perfection in some cases. Who really believes that Street Fighter Zero 3 was the absolute limit? In a perfect world the high-end 3D games could have been showcased on Dreamcast, leaving Saturn a home for ever-better 2D software including Marvel VS Capcom and Street Fighter III, which I feel were not outside the system's capabilities. Instead, the last few 2D efforts were given half-assed Dreamcast ports on a console not really meant for this kind of game - Capcom even once claimed that Sega didn't listen to its requests when asked to suggest ways of improving the console's non-polygonal development tools. The fact most recent attempts to bring a 2D fighter into three dimensions end up playing on an invisible single plane only goes to show just how unimportant the ability to sidestep is - who wants to run around an opponent when you can face them toe-to-toe instead?
If you need any further proof that a decent-looking sprite based game looks better than a sub-standard 3D counterpart, look no further than the continuing stream of homebrew and obscure scrolling shooters for the Dreamcast. Most do indeed rely on polygons for some of their graphics, but for most of the time we're dealing with software that could have been recreated on the Saturn or even MegaDrive without much compromise to gameplay... and that's something the Toshindens and Zero Divides of this world have been proved to lack in comparison with evergreen favourites such as the Street Fighters and even pre-polygonal Mortal Kombats. To end, in my opinion the only genre that benefitted greatly from going 3D is racing/driving, though even a notable early example like OutRun was actually generated using sprites! I'm still waiting for that perfect 32-bit Sonic game that cuts out all the unwanted side characters and just focuses on going from one side of the screen to the other while throwing sprites around at 60 frames per second in high resolution - can it really be that hard to realise such a thing?
|
|
thaleees
Novice
Joined: April 2008
Posts: 45
Location:
|
Post by thaleees on May 15, 2009 2:16:47 GMT
I do almost wish Sega's competition had adopted the same strategy. Who is to blame Sega for thinking 32-bit consoles weren't quite ready for 3D? It's a really sad story and who is to say the Saturn wouldn't have achieved success on a level with the PS1 if they hadn't messed up the launch so badly and brought Bernie Stolar on board?
|
|
