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Post by 17daysolderthannes on Jun 7, 2009 21:40:59 GMT
I know you guys probably get this alot and I'm sorry if this is one of those forums that hate people that start new threads about existing topics, but I figured if I posted in an existing thread my post may get lost and I would end up just having to repost it before I got an answer, so here goes: I just got my first Saturn Friday in really great shape with the box and the good controller for $30. Unlike most other systems like the Genesis, SNES, Playstation, etc., good Saturn games seem to fetch high prices, and I mean RIDICULOUSLY high prices, and since Saturn emulation is, well, pretty much crap at the moment I figure a modchip is the best way to try out games to decide if they're worth the asking price. I have already looked into it and it turns out I have the best version of Saturn for modchipping and I found this tutorial for it: www.angelfire.com/pa/Raluminat/model232.htmlWhere is the cheapest reliable place to get a modchip? That site sells it for $25, which seems pretty good, anyone buy from there to verify they are a good seller? I just recently left a job doing console repair for Play N Trade and have fixed probably near 200 XBOX 360s with everything from RROD to disc drive failures as well as dozens of PS2s, PSPs, and other odds and ends like game save battery replacements (properly with a solder tab battery, not some electrical tape hack job like I've seen some guides online suggest). I once even repaired a laserdisc player (my own personal purchase that was broken during shipping) with a paperclip and superglue. If that tutorial on the site I posted is good, that is well within my capabilities. Back to the topic of installing the modchip, why is it that some Saturns (?Japanese?) need to be soldered to the 14th pin of the chip on the disc drive whereas A+B soldering works on some? Has anyone done several to confirm A+B soldering is the DEFINITE way to go for a US market Saturn? I would prefer that method as it would only jeopardize the modchip and not my luck-of-the-draw mint condition 32 pin IC Saturn because it would be easy to accidentally bridge the pins of the IC on the Saturn and totally screw myself. Also, is there any real risk to the Saturn if I somehow did manage to screw this up doing the A+B method (if that's even possible given the simplicity)? The only reason I'm hesitant to do this is because it would mean ruining a very good shape Saturn and that may be difficult to replace. Oh, and one final question: What is the best way to download and burn Saturn games? So far I've come across bin/cue and mds/mdf format games, so which should I try to download to burn? I also need a recommendation of burn software for the job in case it requires some special process like the 2-track Dreamcast games. My primary computer is a Mac so I would prefer to burn it on that if possible (I have Toast if that helps), but I also have an older PC laptop I can use if necessary, though I would rather not as it has a very small hard drive and would mean I would have to copy the games to a flash drive then temporarily put them on the PC to burn them. Thanks.
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mick_aka
Kickin' it lively!
"Mick is moderately adequate."
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Post by mick_aka on Jun 7, 2009 21:56:16 GMT
Hi there 17daysolderthannes, welcome to the forums I have only ever purchased mod-chip in the UK and the only current supplier left here is our friend Rob over at www.consolegoods.co.uk whi I'm sure would ship to the USA. Generally the mod chips are seriously easy to install, although some will require modification... Basically there is a bevvy of differing Saturn motherboards and different CD boards and assemblies some of which use different ribbon cables to connect to the mainboard. Hence the need for gentle modification to work on some units. I have NEVER damaged a Saturn installing a mod chip. If you are planning to grab any of the European exclusives you should also add a 50/60Hz switch and region mod (http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/) as the Saturn mod chip only bypasses copy protection. We neither discuss or encourage downloading any games that you do now own on the open forums, but believe that legitimate backups of your own collection to save wear and tear falls under the rather vague umbrella of the law. I have had no issues burning images or making direct copies of Saturn titles with Toast 9 on my MacBook Pro. Hope all that helps a bit, again welcome to the forums hope you stick around
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Post by Yart on Jun 7, 2009 22:08:10 GMT
EDIT: Mick beat me to it while I was writing this. Don't worry. We don't bite. It has been addressed multiple times in the past though. But like I said, don't worry. Anyways, as far as that link goes, I have that exact same mod in my Model 2 US Saturn and it works flawlessly. I even did the soldering from point A to B and ripped off the second wire and it worked. Not sure why it doesn't on Japanese Saturns though, but I can assure you it will work, so don't sweat. As far as where to get the modchip, I haven't tried ordering from there, but the feedback on the link on the left side of that page (in the link you provided) seems to have quite a bit of positive feedback. I'd wait for someone else though from here who had a good experience with them. Another place is Rob Webb's store: www.consolegoods.co.uk/ But it's not the same model of chip and may need a bit more work. It'll work the same way though, and the seller is trusted. I'd recommend Racketboy myself: www.racketboy.com/saturn-modchip/ However lately the prices have been skyrocketing there (I remember buying mine for less than $30!!) and they seem out of stock. I'd say option 1. To your final question (bin/cue vs. mds/mdf) I prefer mds/mdf myself because nobody online seems to know what the hell they're doing when making bin/cues. You get the .bin (or sometimes .iso) with all the music tracks and the .cue file, but then you rip open the .cue file and NONE of the file listings in there are even the same as what you have in the directory, so you gotta rewrite the entire thing every single time! It's a pain in the rear and about 90% of the games you'll download in bin/cue will have the same problem. Nobody seems to be competent when it comes to writing a simple text file and matching the filenames. mds/mdf is quick and simple, and has everything you need without the extra bull. But of course, you can't be picky either since everybody rips games in a different way, so you'll encounter both. Be sure to have multiple burning utilities ready. Unfortunately I don't know of any Mac burning software. :/ Now comes the part where Chizzles comes and eats me out: Buy the games you download. Not only does it feel better owning the actual copy, but you're also obeying the law. I know you already stated you would but I'd like to encourage it. Best of luck!
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Post by 17daysolderthannes on Jun 7, 2009 23:09:57 GMT
Hi there 17daysolderthannes, welcome to the forums I have only ever purchased mod-chip in the UK and the only current supplier left here is our friend Rob over at www.consolegoods.co.uk whi I'm sure would ship to the USA. Generally the mod chips are seriously easy to install, although some will require modification... Basically there is a bevvy of differing Saturn motherboards and different CD boards and assemblies some of which use different ribbon cables to connect to the mainboard. Hence the need for gentle modification to work on some units. I have NEVER damaged a Saturn installing a mod chip. If you are planning to grab any of the European exclusives you should also add a 50/60Hz switch and region mod (http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/) as the Saturn mod chip only bypasses copy protection. We neither discuss or encourage downloading any games that you do now own on the open forums, but believe that legitimate backups of your own collection to save wear and tear falls under the rather vague umbrella of the law. I have had no issues burning images or making direct copies of Saturn titles with Toast 9 on my MacBook Pro. Hope all that helps a bit, again welcome to the forums hope you stick around As it is I plan to just region convert and burn all the Japanese games I buy as there's no need to wear out the real disc when I would have to buy additional hardware to do it. I guess I'll be the first from here to buy that modchip from Classic Gaming Sega Style as its a US seller and is designed specifically to work on US Saturns and it seems to be both a good price and a reputable seller (if his feedback is authentic). I'll try it out and let you guys know how it turns out.
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Post by Willja on Jun 7, 2009 23:31:41 GMT
I'm no expert but I managed to modchip my Saturn many moons ago without any problems. It was a long time ago, but I seem to recall copying my games using nero and playing the backups on my Saturn. Is my memory playing tricks on me or was it really that easy?
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Post by 17daysolderthannes on Jun 8, 2009 0:29:27 GMT
Well, it turns out they were out of stock, so I sent a purchase form to Rob Webb (since he doesn't have a normal shopping cart system). His stuff looks pretty good and if shipping isn't insane it may come out a little cheaper.
Oh, and how do you burn mdf/mds files? if that's the best way, I need software to burn it.
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Post by 17daysolderthannes on Jun 10, 2009 4:43:12 GMT
*bump*
Whats the best way to burn MDS/MDF files without using a pay program?
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Post by Yart on Jun 10, 2009 4:56:43 GMT
If you're pirating games, pirate the burning software too. I already sent you a PM with this. Check your messages. (A legal solution)
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Post by 17daysolderthannes on Jun 16, 2009 1:18:58 GMT
FUCK!
I got the modchip, the consolegoods.co.uk one, installed it, and now it recognizes all discs as audio CDs, even legit original Saturn games that I used with no problem before modding it. I soldered the power wire to the 2nd spot on the power supply board (even confirmed the pin with the consolegoods guy), I bridged the solder on the back for the .0014 Saturn new (the one I have), I checked the ribbon cables and they are all in correctly (had one backwards and got the red spheres, now it boots like normal), I even put down electrical tape all over the RF shield to keep it from shorting anything, so what's left? Is there some kind of method I have to use now instead of just turning it on? The worst part is not knowing if I have a bad mod chip or if somehow I didn't do something right.
Please, if anyone knows anything, throw me a bone here. The problem, again: boots up like normal, recognizes ALL discs as audio CDs and will not play any game CD-R or legit.
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chillywilly
Saturn Player
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Post by chillywilly on Jun 16, 2009 3:50:21 GMT
Check the bottom of this page: www.robwebb1.plus.com/saturn/saturnchipguide_2.htmSome CD boards require you to cut traces on the modchip board. Double-check that your Saturn doesn't need those cuts. Also double-check that you didn't accidentally bridge over to the 0019 pad.
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Post by 17daysolderthannes on Jun 16, 2009 4:23:38 GMT
I triple checked that before I even tried to install the chip. I even went so far as taking photos of my Saturn with the top cover off with the 5V power supply circled in red to Rob Webb for him to confirm that I had a .0014 new and that I chose the correct 5V power supply.
I also just noticed that one of the capacitors was definitely touching the leg of one of the chips through the board (on the underside the legs were bent so they were touching). I separated them, but it still doesn't work. I think that contact may have blown the chip or the capacitor. I have checked and double checked every step, I've tried re-inserting the ribbon cables, I've positioned the chip differently to make sure it wasn't shorting on the RF shield, no matter what, whenever I put in a disc I just get the same 2 second BIOS screen freeze (animation pauses) and then the audio CD player (which DOES play the audio, its not just booting to that screen). I'm almost certain this chip is defective, I haven't been able to find another case of this anywhere except for people with incorrectly burned games.
FWIW, my Saturn still works fine with the modchip removed.
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mick_aka
Kickin' it lively!
"Mick is moderately adequate."
Joined: April 2007
Posts: 9,817
Location:
XBL: mickloaf
PSN: mickloaf
Nintendo ID: segamick
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Post by mick_aka on Jun 16, 2009 8:24:37 GMT
No idea what's happening there, have installed a few of Rob's chips with no issues at all aside from a model 2 Saturn I had to tweak the laser bias on after installing.
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chillywilly
Saturn Player
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Post by chillywilly on Jun 23, 2009 7:27:56 GMT
I got lucky... I installed my modchip today (got it from consolegoods) and everything went perfect - I had a plain v14 system, so I just had to jump across the v14 pad, solder the 5V line, and plug in the cables. So I had the simplest setup, and nothing went wrong. Whew! That's a load off my mind.
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Post by 17daysolderthannes on Jun 24, 2009 0:00:36 GMT
ok, I've SORT OF got some success. I installed the 2nd chip (I ordered another one to rule out the possibility of a defective chip) and at first it wouldn't boot games as games (only as audio discs) either. I realized that if I left the disc door open, turned it on, THEN closed it, official games would read (is this normal?). However, when I tried my Radiant Silvergun backup (which I region patched myself), it isn't giving anything. Even though it read official games no problem without the chip, I think the laser may need some power adjustment as I think the modchip may be sapping away crucial amps from the laser. How should I go about this? I'm thinking I'm pretty close, but its aggravating to not know what needs to be done differently and also nerve racking as I could throw off a crucial adjustment and ruin the whole thing (which would suck as its in really good condition).
So, just to check, here was my procedure (Consolegoods.co.uk modchip):
#1 bridge 0014 nodes (for .0014 new)
#2 solder 5V wire to chip (2nd slot on power board from the back of the console) and tested output with multimeter (reading about 5.03 V)
#3 attach ribbon cables as follows: CD drive->chip in->chipout->motherboard
behavior:
-boots everything as music CDs if booted with disc door closed -boots real games as games if booted with disc door OPENED and then closed -boots all CD-R games as audio CDs
When I watch the CD mechanism move, it is still going to the outer edge of the disc for that copy protection ring, is it supposed to do that? If so, is the CD-R supposed to have something there? I may just be burning the CD-Rs wrong. What is the easiest free program I can use to burn a game? I primarily use mac, but I'll fire up the PC if I have to in order to test this thing. Also, if anyone wants to PM me a link to a download of a backup they have burned without alteration and can confirm it is working, that would be great. After I confirm the function of the modchip, I'll destroy the disc, it is just to test functionality.
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chillywilly
Saturn Player
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Posts: 50
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Post by chillywilly on Jun 24, 2009 3:01:01 GMT
The purpose of the modchip (as I understand it) is to fake the outer ring signal for any disc. So it SHOULD go and try to read that outer ring, which the modchip then takes care of. As to burning the CDRs, you should burn them at whatever speed your burner does non-zonal burning. If you watch the data throughput while burning, you will see one of two things: the speed gradually goes from slow to fast as the burning goes from the inner tracks to the outer; or, the speed stays constant for a while, then jumps to a faster speed at certain places. The latter is called Zonal recording and is used at higher speeds by many different burners. Old systems like the Saturn (or older) can't handle zonal type discs.
As for the lid... that's odd. Did you splash any solder onto the Saturn while soldering? Did you accidentally pull lose another cable (make sure ALL cables are tightly seated)?
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