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Post by mancity on Nov 28, 2011 16:43:27 GMT
Please can somebody explain what one of these is for and why you would use it?
Also, where would you get one and at what kind of price?
I keep reading about people on here buying them, but I dont know why!
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Post by buckoa51 on Nov 28, 2011 16:50:28 GMT
In a nutshell, the XRGB3 is an upscaling/linedoubling unit most commonly known for its excellent 240p to 480p conversion and perfect scanline emulation. If you want the very best picture from your Saturn on anything other than a 15khz CRT this is the box you need to get. The picture quality will easily blow away the crappy quality you normally get from a HDTV's SCART connector and will actually outperform any other box on the market for 240p conversion, once you see it you'll never go back.
However, it's pretty dated and to actually get it to work, you may need additional hardware too. I love mine, I got it from Solaris Japan, they have them in stock at the moment for £270 plus shipping. I'd strongly advise you to wait though, see what the new XRGB model called the Frame Miester is like, it's due out in January.
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Post by mancity on Nov 28, 2011 16:53:06 GMT
£270  Seriously that much? |
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Post by buckoa51 on Nov 28, 2011 16:58:32 GMT
You're kidding me right? A DVDO Edge would set you back at least £400, a Lumagen well over a grand and neither unit does as good a job with 240p.
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Aydan
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Post by Aydan on Nov 28, 2011 17:22:48 GMT
£5 rgb scart into a hdtv with the sharpness set to 0 does the job perfect for me thanks. FAKE BILINEAR FILTERING FTW
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Post by RallyDon82 on Nov 28, 2011 17:47:14 GMT
i might consider purchasing one of these upscalers if it sorts out not only the picture quality but the horrendous lag too i've never seen one i assume upscalers input via hdmi and you then plug your systems into the upscaler via component/svideo/rgb/vga etc if so then i 'm hoping it does bypass the tvs lag, any confirmation on this?
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Aydan
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Post by Aydan on Nov 28, 2011 17:55:04 GMT
If your tv lags that much playing games buy a better tv... I bought a shitty argos on brand Mikomi one for like £70 and i have never had a single problem with it >_> whats all this lag about?
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Post by buckoa51 on Nov 28, 2011 18:01:45 GMT
I've never seen the point of spending lots of money on a nice HDTV only to skimp on connections and make it look worse than the set it was replacing, but each to their own. Most people assume the upscaling is causing the lag but most of the time the bulk of lag is introduced by deinterlacing. If you feed a Saturn into a HDTV (yes, any HDTV), what happens is the TV processes the signal as 480i instead of 240 or 288p which is what it really is. Not only does this cause problems with drop shadows and sometimes scrolling too, but it means that the bare minimum input lag is around 30ms, sometimes double that. Using a processor that correctly recognises and process a 240p signal as progressive will cure this problem. However, having said all that, input lag is a problem that's only getting worse and worse. Some sets lag over 30ms with gaming mode turned on and when fed a native 1080p signal. TV manufacturers just don't seem to care about gamers, so they stick more and more signal processing in the set which adds on more and more lag. In a nutshell yes, the XRGB3 can only output throug VGA in B1 mode (B1 mode is lag free and has scanline emulation) and then the signal is kind of weird. More up-to-date scalers like the DVDO Edge can of course output HDMI. More info on all of this on my site if any of you want to look  |
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Aydan
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Post by Aydan on Nov 28, 2011 18:04:02 GMT
I've never seen the point of spending lots of money on a nice HDTV only to skimp on connections and make it look worse than the set it was replacing, but each to their own. Most people assume the upscaling is causing the lag but most of the time the bulk of lag is introduced by deinterlacing. If you feed a Saturn into a HDTV (yes, any HDTV), what happens is the TV processes the signal as 480i instead of 240 or 288p which is what it really is. Not only does this cause problems with drop shadows and sometimes scrolling too, but it means that the bare minimum input lag is around 30ms, sometimes double that. However, having said all that, input lag is a problem that's only getting worse and worse. Some sets lag over 30ms with gaming mode turned on and when fed a native 1080p signal. TV manufacturers just don't seem to care about gamers, so they stick more and more signal processing in the set which adds on more and more lag. In a nutshell yes, the XRGB3 can only output VGA in B1 mode and then the signal is kind of weird. More up-to-date scalers like the DVDO Edge can of course output HDMI. More info on all of this on my site if any of you want to look i dont own a nice hdtv. its a cheapy one which does the job. im not a picture whore other than rgb. it looks fine and it's conveniant to have everything hooked up to one tv. Again, if you're that adamant about perfect image fine, but spending stupid money on a few pixels on a screen comes across as borderline obsessive. But again, it's what each person has to their own |
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Post by buckoa51 on Nov 28, 2011 18:10:08 GMT
The difference comes down to a lot more than just nit picking a few pixels, you're also reducing input lag too. Consider the example below (not actually using an XRGB3 but it shows what a big difference even a cheapy scaling solution can make).  |
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Post by Syntesis on Nov 28, 2011 18:20:38 GMT
i dont own a nice hdtv. its a cheapy one which does the job. im not a picture whore other than rgb. it looks fine and it's conveniant to have everything hooked up to one tv. Again, if you're that adamant about perfect image fine, but spending stupid money on a few pixels on a screen comes across as borderline obsessive. But again, it's what each person has to their own It's a one off purchase for all your retro consoles. There are people who spend more than that every 18 months just upgrading their graphics cards. Worth pointing out also that some consoles outright won't work on certain HDTVs or have the picture mangled in certain ways. I couldn't play my Super Famicom at all on my HDTV because it looked so awful. If the consoles you play on your HDTV work fine and you are happy with the picture then awesome but don't dismiss investing in scalers as being obsessive. There are some people who are happy with RF and think that you are obsessive for wanting RGB cables. Horses for courses. |
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Aydan
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Post by Aydan on Nov 28, 2011 18:23:00 GMT
^ thats a point. The quality does look impressive from the screens but not something i'd pay that much for. Perhaps if I could see one in motion I would be more persuaded. As for lag I still don't get it, I've never noticed this at all  |
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Post by buckoa51 on Nov 28, 2011 18:25:25 GMT
Exactly, it's great having a 40" screen that works like a CRT and a HDTV. Although I warn anyone that gets an XRGB3 it's not likely to be a one off purchase due to it being so weird a signal. I have to feed mine into my DVDO Edge before it'll work on my TV. That's why I say wait and see if their new model is better.
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Post by buckoa51 on Nov 28, 2011 18:27:12 GMT
Some people notice it more than others, at 30-40ms you might not notice it though on shmups and 1 on 1 fighters it can be a problem.
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Aydan
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Post by Aydan on Nov 28, 2011 18:34:59 GMT
Again thats pretty annoying. If this new one just works out of the box as it bloody should for that price, then I may look at one in a long time future. But Again I'd like to see a comparison via video somehow xD
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