Sonic Xtreme beta released!

[superdeadite]

ASSEMBLER from ASSEMBLERgames has released the Sonic Xtreme beta to the public. Note, this is only a basic tech demo using the original NiGHTS engine. So its like one small area that you can run around in.

But hey, it about time something became available!

The ASSEMBLERgames forum thread for the release. Go there for the download.

www.assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14540

[mick_aka]

I had this little baby already, but glad to see it's been properly released by someone

[rossi46]

WOW

*EDIT*

Not to be ungrateful, but it's a bit of an anti-climax, tbh.

After years of looking at pics, then more recently, youtube footage, to actually play S.E. is a bit of a non-event. Still great to have, though. A small slice of (unreleased) Sega gaming history. Thanks for the heads-up.

Paul

[Anthaemia.]

Unless the more advanced four-level PC tech demo is released, this was the most advanced Saturn code that existed - not even the playable E3 '96 prototype or later "Project Condor" builds had much on this version, created in the short period Sega Technical Institute had access to the NiGHTS engine (that is, before Sonic Team programmer/producer Yuji Naka threatened to quit unless his technology was returned). The fact that Sonic Xtreme is regarded as worth more than the sum of its parts to fans won't change for now, although it's been known for quite a while that original designer Chris Senn is supervising production of a new game based on his and Ofer Alon's intended pitch to Sega PC back in the day - whether this will still feature a certain blue hedgehog or not remains to be seen, but I doubt anything licensed is going to come of this effort as Sega won't exactly like it if a part-homebrew-part-official piece of Sonic's history ended up eclipsing his more recent canonical appearances...

[saturnworship]

I would say i agree with Anthaemia,,, (your nick sounds like a death metal band hehe)

Good to see someone knows what he's talking about, but, i also would add that the fact of play that little demo is something more than good for the ill fated sega saturn fans like me, watch my saturn move the hedgehog in a 3D engine with that speed is more than great i would say..

Anyways, we all know that the "real deal" would be the E3 96 Prototype.... (was this ever running on a saturn?? damn from the videos it looked really really great!!!!!!)

[Anthaemia.]

The playable build seen at the 1996 Electronic Entertainment Expo was indeed running off a stock Saturn, though it was created using just one of the many game engines Sega Technical Institute employed during the production of this ill-fated title. If you're not familiar with the timeline of Sonic Xtreme's development, here's a quick guide:

Pre-Saturn Era
Various prototypes, some little more than animations produced on Amiga PCs while others basic MegaDrive tests. One pitch was for the abandoned Mars console, which later evolved into the 32X. There may have also been a short period when Xtreme (or "Sonic Mars" as it was still known) was in planning for Sega's other cancelled hardware of this time, the Neptune hybrid. Before the Saturn design was finalised, NVIDIA and Silicon Graphics chips were used for differing interim solutions. Both ultimately rejected in favour of a console based around the existing System 32 arcade board (albeit with significantly more power to handle "modest" three-dimensional graphics, which later ended up being upgraded yet again with the addition of polygonal capabilities above the Model 1 architecture when Sega discovered their platform would be much weaker than the PlayStation - also powered by a Silicon Graphics chipset), the latter ended up being sold to Nintendo, who changed very little for their own 64-bit hardware, then-dubbed Project Reality/Ultra.

Saturn Version 1
Based on the engine used for BUG!, with additional "fish-eye" camera lens effect that drastically affected the frame rate. A short video clip from this early 32-bit version featured at the 1996 Tokyo Game Show and can be found online, being the first media of Sonic Xtreme to be released.

Saturn Version 2
STI informed Sega of America then-CEO Bernie Stolar they needed another engine to make their Winter '96 deadline, and so for a short while they had access to the NiGHTS code - until Sonic Team leader Yuji Naka threatened to leave unless his own group's technology was handed back. This led to the test code that has now been leaked, so hopefully most of you will know everything there is to know about this now.

Saturn Version 3
Internally referred to as Project Condor, this final variant came to be when a representative of Sega's Japanese operations visited the STI offices and was impressed by Chris Coffen's own engine. Before its selection, this had only been used for the boss stages, but soon it was being adapted for the whole game. A few images of this build are in public circulation, though since then an even later version has been revealed...

The PC Attempt
Breaking off from "Project Condor" to focus on their own engine, former STI lead designer Chris Senn and programming genius Ofer Alon worked together on a four-level demo that was pitched in the hope of a possible release under the Sega PC division. Not interested in anything apart from ports of existing Saturn or arcade titles, their vision for Xtreme was sadly turned down, though Senn has since uploaded a wealth of documentation, source graphics, music, concept artwork and even videos from this final stage in the convoluted history of the game. Had this been approved, it may have been possible to In the end, Sega had anticipated the collapse of Xtreme and hired Travellers' Tales for a quick port of their earlier MegaDrive smash, Sonic 3D: Flickies Island, given a minor graphical upgrade and newly composed redbook audio, plus Saturn exclusive special stages created by Sonic Team. Ironically, this also used the fish-eye camera trick, even though Senn has confirmed that a Saturn port may have been considered.

The "Other" Xtreme
As a side note, Sonic 3D in its 32-bit guise was originally intended to feature bonus stages based on a pool-like concept (unsurprisingly, this was called Sonic 3D Pool) that had been made by Sonic 2 special stage designer Peter Morawiec using his own Sphere Renderer engine. For a while, this had formed the backbone of a separate game in development that was confusingly also known as Sonic Xtreme and later Saturn Sonic, with the assiatance of external programming team Point Of View. Little information is known about this project, though it was entirely independent of the more familiar STI efforts. Again, you can find a couple of screenshots from this version if you look hard enough and know where to...

Confused yet? I don't blame you!

[saturnworship]

Well, first of all thank you very much for the info, i already readed something really near-looking in other websites.

About the Pre-Saturn era i was in knoweledge of that, ... but what i didn't know before is that the Saturn version 1 was really running on a Sega Saturnm (the E3 demo...) well...was playable that demo?? hehe maybe the future will tell who knows...

People tell the framerate was not good with the Saturn Version 1... but in the video in my opinion if lacks of something is not speed!!!!

About the Saturn Version 3,,, well,,, isn't that the most promising??

The video that Sonic got his spikes of steel is the one i remember from the old days... and i remember that when i saw it ... it was really "extreme"

cheers!

[Anthaemia.]

Saturnworship, the "spikes of steel" version you refer to was built using the BUG! engine, and it was this same prototype that featured in playable form at the 1996 E3. However, only the boss stages were available to the public, and general response indicated that the frame rate was too low for such a high profile game (this was caused mostly by the processor-intensive camera effect, dubbed the fish eye lens). However, it was later resurrected for the PC incarnation of Xtreme and the plan for this had been to port the finished product over to the Saturn, though presumably this feature - which had been resurrected by this point, therefore making it highly likely to have been a design creation of Chris Senn or Ofer Alon, who worked on both prototypes - would not have survived the move back to the console it first originated on. Finally, the real goldmine now for those still holding on to more Xtreme than the recently leaked NiGHTS engine test is not "version three" but the later four-level pitch to SEGA PC, even though it's hard to say whether this could be described as being separate to the more commonly-known Saturn builds we'd all seen printed across various magazines back in the day.

[saturnworship]

Well, seems that the PC version that is currently in the works (??¿¿?¿) at the senntient webpage is one of the only hopes to finally play that game..

Ok but the magic is over, the real deal is put a cd into the Saturn, and kick ass with a 3D Sonic....

There was never build a near-complete version for Saturn? Well i remember watching back in the days through the magazines and what i saw was really good....

Just looking at the E3 Videos i think the one made by Ofer Alon kicks ass.... well, the leaked version also could kick ass back in the day...

A lot of people worry about a Saturn Sonic 3D a la Sonic R ...but i think i wouldn't like that.... the X-treme first at all got a lot of magic, it was really "obscure" and Extreme.... it was like more "adult" (well,, not the best word maybe...hehe) oh.... the spikes of steel came back to my mind.. haha!

I will try to find Spanish magazines like HOBBY CONSOLAS and put a decent scan of some Sonic Xtreme report very interesting...

[Anthaemia.]

Despite the various builds of Sonic Xtreme for different graphics engines, the fact remains that no single version appears to be more advanced than what has now leaked. Any further hope rests with Chris Senn and his PC remake project, if this even manages to remain a pseudo-licensed product (the likeliness being that Sonic will have to be replaced with a similar new character unless some type of deal is struck - this may not have occurred before, though it's still not something we should rule out just yet). Another issue with the so-called "Project S" is whether or not anybody will be prepared to attempt a Saturn conversion, since we all know from professional coders just how difficult it was to get such a detailed game running on the 32-bit platform with all effects present while maintaining a playable frame rate. In fact, wasn't it the inability to achieve this very goal that virtually brought Sonic Xtreme as a console title to its proverbial knees in the first place? Any modern effort could benefit from hindsight and new programming techniques (including SGL OS 3.02, which hadn't been made available to the public back then), though once again it would be foolish to promise anything. On the subject of Ofer Alon, he truly was a hidden gem within the many talents of Saturn-era Sega, putting the company's US division on the map next to its more familiar Japanese in-house counterpart as the best single talent since Peter Morawiec a (console) generation before. These days he's become detached from even mentioning his work on Xtreme, which remains criminally underrated to all but the hardcore enthusiast. Actually, it's because of his decision not to get involved that Chris Senn has been unable to share anything playable from the PC code he later went on to produce with Alon, who has since gone on to create ZBrush and now creates under the screen name Pixolator. If you want to see more recent fruits of this skilled artist's labour, head over to 209.132.69.82/user-gallery/getthumbs.shtml?1_Alon&linkall and prove those wrong for ignoring his talent back in the day, and maybe he might just reconsider his position what had been a massive achievement in relation to not only the Sega Saturn but videogaming in general...

[saturnworship]

That Ofer Alon is a genius there is no doubt about that....

But let me question that there isn't any beta more advanced than the "718"... wasn't true that the cover of the game was already meant to be sent to press=?? Maybe the playable (or not??) E3 version of the game would be cool to achieve... you know,, what i call "spikes of steel"...

I agree with you about the Saturn conversion, the requirements to port a Saturn game (dual processor code etc etc etc) would be TOO HIGH for internet fans. There should be really good programmers working on there... if not... i don't expect anything.

Anyways,.. i think someday the Hedgeogh will show his steel spikes on my Saturn! hahah! faith is free

Well, i know would be hard to maintain a "good" framerate ...but remember Saturn power can be really great.. and the E3 thing looked really cool,, also you will now that if more time was applied and no bad luck refering injuries like the one Chris got back in the day we have got Xtreme in its full splendour, but stress and disorder in Sega America and Sega Japan put Sonic Xtreme to hell ....

Anyways , with Ofer Alon.. the game finally would have looked brutal., just pure old Sonic style in 3D .. sprites or not.. it got some magic..

[saturnworship]

Hey, remember i sent you a pm!

[grolt]

Bringing this sucker back from the dead to just get your opinions on the various builds this game had. For me, Alon's fish-eye take on the Bug! engine is nothing short of genius. You can easily see some similar stylistic techniques in Nintendo's Mario Galaxy, but for my money the fish-eye engine is still the better. It manages the impossible in really emphasizing speed while every other 32 bit title of the time was still stuck in the slow. I wish that game had been released the way it is now - just running around for the eye candy would be experience enough. Forget about enemies or ring collecting.

The level demos leaked online for each level are all quite beautiful - and I must say the Death Egg textures look incredibly sharp. That level strikes me as being the most refined of the bunch, although I like the speed of the Crystal level. There are even some pretty damn impressive transparencies at the start of the crystal level, too. It is understandable this got canned considering there was zero organization, but Sega are a bunch of fools for not capitalizing on this groundbreaking engine and tweaking it for, if not a Sonic game, then another character. It was this kind of speed and scope that was needed to show gamers of the time that not only was 3D the real deal, but the Saturn was the one that could bring it.

Not once is the slower framerate of the fish-eye build mentioned over at Senntient, so I'm wondering where you're getting this information, Anth. Not that I'm doubting you, but I'd just like to read more about it. It seemed to run fine on those videos pulled from the Saturn for the E3 preview, so again, I wonder.

The Sonic Xtreme founded around the NiGHTS engine looks like shit. That should have never happened. Not only did it set them back from fixing their existing engines, it just got Japan more fed up with the American politics, which no doubt lead to the premature cancellation.

The Sonic 32X version is actually kind of charming, but it does not feel like a Sonic title at all. Polygons were so new that the game chugs along slower than even Bug! and the gameplay feels more like something you'd find on the Master System (Teddy Boy?) than on a 32-bit console. Still, I'd take this over that NiGHTS engine garbage.

I must return, though. That fish-eye perspective is just aces. Genius and perfectly suited for a 32 Sonic. I just really hope the build that's been powering all the YouTube PC level demos is eventually leaked online, because it looks too fun for words.

[chizzles]

Anyone remember when ASSembler threatened to sue DRX?

I doubt the courts would get far with it, due to torrents of copyrighted material being piracy and all. I doubt any Judge would let it go to court... even...

[Anthaemia.]

The later four-stage PC demo was sourced for the clips uploaded over at Senntient, so of course there's not going to be any slowdown in those - you can even see a window surrounding the videos confirming these test levels were being run in a program called 3D view with a camera positioned in front of a monitor! As for the E3 '96 footage, this was pre-rendered using the modified BUG! engine build I mentioned earlier. From the accounts of those present at this event, the playable version of Sonic Xtreme was a single boss encounter running on a later code revision (maybe from the "Project Condor" era, but I'm not entirely sure). With little of substance and frame rate problems throughout, I can't imagine many being too impressed with the game at that point in its ill-fated development.