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Post by barryburton on Apr 7, 2017 10:32:39 GMT
In the UK, as I suspect anywhere else in Europe (we are all different countries you know), you can use reasonable force to defend your home. There was a famous case where a farmer, who was terrorised by unarmed young burglars, shot one of them dead in his house, and was jailed for it- Tony Martin. I'm actually not clear where the line is, but with gun ownership so low, it is not a prominent issue in Britain. Maybe there's a difference in Ireland due to the history, I'm not sure. Edit: I see Davy's added this example to his post
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Post by davyk on Apr 7, 2017 10:39:52 GMT
In the UK, as I suspect anywhere else in Europe (we are all different countries you know), you can use reasonable force to defend your home. There was a famous case where a farmer, who was terrorised by unarmed young burglars, shot one of them dead in his house, and was jailed for it- Tony Martin. I'm actually not clear where the line is, but with gun ownership so low, it is not a prominent issue in Britain. Maybe there's a difference in Ireland due to the history, I'm not sure. Edit: I see Davy's added this example to his post Northern Ireland is part of the UK so by and large it's the same laws. For obvious reasons we have a lot more people living here who own what are called personal protection weapons - including MPs, judges etc. I can't recall off the top of my head of a home invasion situation like the Tony Martin case in N.Ireland. They are rare across the UK as burglars usually break in when the property is empty.
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Post by bultje112 on Apr 7, 2017 10:47:32 GMT
Speaking of guns a man in I forgot which state there is a youtube video on it I will look it up. Might be there not sure yet sued. For shooting 3 home invaders which happend to be 3 teenage boys I think 18 18 and 19. From what I understand in Europe your not allowed to shoot home invaders is that true? no you are not allowed to shoot someone in the netherlands but you are allowed to defend yourself and your property. if you shoot someone in a gunfight in your own home you can be acquitted but will get a fine for illegal gun ownership. the thing is, the netherlands is such a violent-free nation relatively speaking especially compared to the us, where in detroit alone more people get killed by gunfire every year than during every year in the northern ireland civil war, that chances of getting robbed with a gun are almost zero. this never happens save some rare examples of juwelers or something and they sometimes have (illegal) weapons to defend themselves. nothing feels more at ease knowing that, should you get yourself in a 'dangerous' situation, it will be solved by fists and in utmost situation a knife. having been an mma fighter and teacher for over 10 years I have no worries about guns here and I can handle my own in any other situation as long as there aren't 8 guys ganging up on me at the same time who know what they are doing.
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Post by davyk on Apr 7, 2017 11:12:35 GMT
Have been to a few parts of Northern Europe - Netherlands and Sweden. They feel different and pretty laid back. That part of the world is pretty progressive too. You can own guns in the UK but as I said earlier it is strictly controlled and there really aren't that many in circulation. Most of the UK police force are still unarmed for example. (NI police are still armed to the teeth though sadly). And for the record - it wasn't a civil war here (though it came close just before WW1) Officially it was called "civil unrest" - in actuality it was 30 years of terrorism and there are still fringe groups active. You're right abut the number of deaths here though. Even at its worst in the early 70s there were as many people killed in car accidents. Nothing compared to the US. docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hRidYe3-avd7gvlZWVi1YZB7QY6dKhekPS1I1kbFTnY/edit#gid=0
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Post by bultje112 on Apr 7, 2017 11:21:35 GMT
yeah I had no other idea how to call it. my dad used to work as an infiltrator for MI5 in IRA, among other organisations in Europe, long before he was a teacher and met my mother and got any children fortunately. he told me some of it in his later years although he got some serious form of PTST from that and other things he saw and did.
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Post by davyk on Apr 7, 2017 11:24:23 GMT
The IRA had been infiltrated quite a bit by British Intelligence. There were occasions were bombings and shootings were allowed to happen to protect agents. Stuff that would be hard to live with I'd imagine.
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Post by bultje112 on Apr 7, 2017 11:32:03 GMT
The IRA had been infiltrated quite a bit by British Intelligence. There were occasions were bombings and shootings were allowed to happen to protect agents. Stuff that would be hard to live with I'd imagine. yes. when my dad was with IRA it was the last thing he did for MI5. he told me years later he had sympathized with the IRA unlike any other organisation he was in before like the RAF for instance, who my dad all hated. when Bloody Sunday had happened my dad was driven with his IRA 'friends' from Dublin to Derry and he saw the slaughter. after his year of work there he briefed his superiors saying what they were doing to them was the wrong way to go and that he wanted to quit his job (also feeling in general that he would not live for very long with his job).
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Post by davyk on Apr 7, 2017 11:47:38 GMT
That was very early on. Half of the population were being treated very poorly by the State at that time. Things really kicked off after Bloody Sunday. It was a tipping point that was very badly managed. If the investigation after that had been done right things might have been different but it was a whitewash and probably helped the IRA to recruit more people.
Then it really went bad. The IRA started attacking the population as well as police and soldiers. There was a Bloody Friday caused by them. Then reactionary groups started up and we all went to hell for 30 years. I was 3 years old in 1969 when it all kicked off so I didn't really know anything different as a kid and teenager.
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Post by bultje112 on Apr 7, 2017 11:57:44 GMT
from an outsider I just hope ireland will be ireland again like in rugby and some other sports and scotland will go out of the uk. I don't like the imperial attitude. look at how they react on the gibraltar situation. I like england a lot but prefer nations to separate into their own states and from there on out form alliances like the EU.
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Post by davyk on Apr 7, 2017 12:06:09 GMT
I can see why people look at it that way. My problem is if Ireland became united again I would be financially screwed. In the South (as we call it) the tax regime is nuts, the health system is broken and the cost of everything is so much higher.
Romantically it is an attractive thought but the practicalities are highly problematic. The border has been in place for nearly 100 years now so cultural and economic differences exist now. There are people who look past that and want unity but there are people who don't. Which is why we are in the mess we are in. If England had left us alone (it goes back 800 years including atrocities committed by Cromwell in the 17th century) maybe things would be better - but the truth is the Irish love a scrap and we didn't need the English to encourage us.
I'm not saying it won't ever happen - but personally I wouldn't relish the idea.
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Post by davyk on Apr 7, 2017 12:09:16 GMT
How did we end up talking about this when we started about light guns on LCD screens?
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Post by bultje112 on Apr 7, 2017 12:12:21 GMT
I can see your point but I believe the catholics almost all want reunion right? and catholic birth numbers are much higher so sooner than later the vast majory of norther ireland will be catholic as well. I doubt the economic problems would be anywhere near as big as what west-germany had to deal with, with east-germany. I think this could be resolved over some time.
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Post by davyk on Apr 7, 2017 12:15:04 GMT
It is a mistake to believe most catholics want unity. They dislike paying taxes just as much as protestants.
Polls are polls but opinion polls held locally always bear this out.
Remember the UK for all its faults is a benign government, with freedom to do as you wish. It also pours huge amounts of money into this region. Our lifestyle is heavily subsidised - something the South simply couldn't afford. Our security and social health costs are still colossal.
Again - it may happen one day but not sure if it's any time soon.
The whole issue of the Union with Scotland and Brexit is another problem.
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Post by barryburton on Apr 7, 2017 12:17:36 GMT
It will be very interesting to see what happens to Northern Ireland, long term, if Scotland leaves the UK. All that bloodshed and trauma to keep NI in the UK, then the neighbours just leave.
I have no preference as to the outcome , as long as it is democratic and peaceful.
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Post by davyk on Apr 7, 2017 12:20:56 GMT
A peaceful solution is highly unlikely still. People are still getting killed here despite the ceasefire. It will be a generational thing.
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