humbug
Newbie
Joined: August 2010
Posts: 19
Location:
|
Post by humbug on Aug 17, 2010 0:01:52 GMT
So, i was playing my newly repaired saturn on my brand spankers xrgb-3... and all I can say is I never realised how pixilated sega rally is. I know that the Sega Saturn is capable of widescreen resolutions and from the wiki, it does this too: So my question being, how can one make use of these programable resolutions? Also I noticed that when transfered from PAL SegaRally through RGB on 60Hz, all of the on screen sprites are offset 30~50% down the screen... but if I put it into 50Hz, it puts the onscreen sprites in the right spots, but the whole screen is offset by 30~50%... but if moved up into the screen area, it doesnt fit the screen like the 60Hz did... So Im presuming I need an NTSC version of the game... but my next question being, what other PAL games dont make the cut? all of them, or just a select few? What about all my backups that are in the PAL format? I have a feeling that a simple region change on the ISO and a reburn wont solve my problems... Any ideas anyone? Cheers
|
|
|
Post by Kibbles on Aug 17, 2010 3:01:09 GMT
The games control the resolution output by the console, so you're stuck with whatever resolution they tell it to render at. Running the European copy of Sega Rally in 60Hz is also making the game run at an incorrect speed so you're going to need a copy from a NTSC region to get it running right. If you want the Saturn to look the best it can look the only solution is to play on a CRT that supports the resolutions the Saturn outputs without the need for an upscaler Although if that's not possible, sit further back from your existing screen.
|
|
humbug
Newbie
Joined: August 2010
Posts: 19
Location:
|
Post by humbug on Aug 17, 2010 3:28:20 GMT
So just a quickie then;
Has anyone ever created a list of what games render at what res? I'd really like to know what supports the high res features. I know not many games support wide screen either... but I'd still like to know.
|
|
slowninja
Newbie
Joined: August 2010
Posts: 15
Location:
|
Post by slowninja on Aug 17, 2010 5:40:37 GMT
Here is a list of PAL games and ones that are optimised (in other words, run at the same speed compared to U and J versions) for 50hz: www.segasaturn.co.uk/games/sega_saturn_pal.htmlSo you will need the U or J version of the optimised ones if you run them at 60hz, otherwise the optimised games will stretch off the screen just like Rally. There are some games that you might only want to run in 50hz too, like World League Soccer, as it has no U or J version(?) and it's already optimised for 50hz.
|
|
|
Post by superdeadite on Aug 17, 2010 13:08:46 GMT
I'm a bit confused, if the screen isn't perfectly centered through your XRGB-3, why not just use the screen position options that the device offers? Whatever resolution the game runs in, the XRGB-3 is going to change it to whatever you selected anyways. And you need to turn on the fake scanlines to hide the rough pixels your seeing. When configured correctly on a good display, the XRGB line does a great job.
|
|
humbug
Newbie
Joined: August 2010
Posts: 19
Location:
|
Post by humbug on Aug 17, 2010 14:09:54 GMT
The Xrgb-3 works with NTSC formats, not PAL... the xrgb is able to shift the picture ok... playing with settings such as frame drawing type, dot by dot functions and the H+V widths and positions to get the overscan in my vision, however, in some games in 60Hz, there are onscreen text that are shifted outside of the overscan area, so even sliding or extending the frame wont help. Its ok in 50Hz, but I have quite alot of overscan in the top and bottoms of the screens. its cutting half of my text in half.
I later tried another game, wipeout and I am not getting any overscan with the same settings. So if I just get the games that are optimised or that are ok with 60Hz, im good. I will get a new copy of all my pall games by using the above list to see what games need to be in NTSC and which can stay in PAL.
|
|
|
Post by superdeadite on Aug 17, 2010 16:13:07 GMT
For games that are overscaning out of the normal picture range, you need to change an option. On the XRGB-2plus, it's called "Mask" I have to disable it to see the status bar in R-Type for example. No idea what it's called on the 3 as I don't have one, but the 3 in B1 mode is basically an HD 2plus, so I'd imagine the option is there somewhere.
|
|
humbug
Newbie
Joined: August 2010
Posts: 19
Location:
|
Post by humbug on Sept 26, 2010 23:09:34 GMT
nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3819.0I've come across this on the net... can someone add to this? Anyone know if it is possible to patch games to take advantage of this? mod chips/switchs/boot disks? Its quite handy for the XRGB-3 as I am using the D in 2 RGB, so it supports 31kHz etc with the same pinout
|
|
|
Post by Anthaemia. on Sept 26, 2010 23:52:09 GMT
Has anyone ever created a list of what games render at what res? I'd really like to know what supports the high res features. I know not many games support wide screen either... but I'd still like to know. I know a few places where you can find out what games ran in the Saturn's 704x480 and widescreen modes, though I'm not sure there are any sites documenting every game's exact resolution or frame rate - I could provide this information for a few titles, but I'd love for everyone to pool together and compile a more definitive list one day just as is currently happening with the memory file information database being assembled here right now...
|
|
humbug
Newbie
Joined: August 2010
Posts: 19
Location:
|
Post by humbug on Sept 27, 2010 0:32:45 GMT
yes, that seems to be the only real way forward.
it seems impossible at this time to get VGA for any game... there could be games out there which it would be possible for, however I have no idea how I could find out such a thing.
So it just leaves to make the most of each games res... which requires that list.
I would gladly help to compile a list of all the games I have... could someone tell me how?
It would be a good idea to upload a spreadsheet that we can all add to so we can make sure we don't double up.
|
|
mick_aka
Kickin' it lively!
"Mick is moderately adequate."
Joined: April 2007
Posts: 9,817
Location:
XBL: mickloaf
PSN: mickloaf
Nintendo ID: segamick
|
Post by mick_aka on Sept 27, 2010 9:13:11 GMT
This sounds like an awesome idea, can you somehow set SSF to run in a game's native res then take a screen-shot to get the resolution info?!
|
|
|
Post by Anthaemia. on Sept 27, 2010 16:23:30 GMT
From personal experience I've noticed the European version of The House Of The Dead and later Sega Flash demo discs (volumes 3-7, for the record) lose some of their vertical resolution when displayed in SSF, which suggests they were region hacked as opposed to being properly optimised from their native NTSC code to work on PAL systems. There may be other examples, but the majority of games show the correct resolution.
I'll start going through my collection and post the results later, though if anyone does provide information about any titles please make sure to include mention of the region code. Also, I wouldn't recommend trying to read the frame count from an emulator unless you actually know the exact console refresh rate and the game in question has no known instances of major slowdown.
Alternatively, if you have a powerful enough system to emulate a certain game at what appears to be full-speed then don't hesitate to include this - you could even check it against direct feed footage where such reference material is available! Hopefully this idea will go somewhere because this kind of resource is sorely lacking in my opinion... now who wants to get the ball rolling?
|
|
|
Post by Kibbles on Sept 27, 2010 16:52:15 GMT
When SSF detects a PAL game it forces the incorrect 'widescreen' aspect ratio, regardless of whether the game had its rendering window optimized or not.
Even 'full screen' games like VF2 run 'wide' in SSF.
|
|
humbug
Newbie
Joined: August 2010
Posts: 19
Location:
|
Post by humbug on Sept 27, 2010 22:59:15 GMT
thats the sort of thing that doesn't let me trust the information from emulators.
I have my saturn hooked up to my xrgb-3... is there anyway i can pull the info directly from the hardware?
|
|
humbug
Newbie
Joined: August 2010
Posts: 19
Location:
|
Post by humbug on Oct 21, 2010 20:56:29 GMT
no one can provide any more info on this?
cheers
|
|