Xen
Saturn Player
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Post by Xen on Jan 11, 2011 20:07:31 GMT
Picture quality going Saturn SCART directly to HDTV will be ok (usable) but not great (compared to a CRT). Make sure you get a set with minimal input lag too (which is getting very tricky these days). For best results, use a videoprocessor along with your TV if your budget allows. I'd get a good CRT with it if I could... but alas! And yeah, I'm getting one with lil' lag, my PS3 and 360 are the main reasons I even want one... playing these two in SD is a nightmare! LJay: That's the reaction people give by hearing "Sega Saturn". I've given up on even mentioning the poor thing...
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Post by Antman on Jan 11, 2011 23:50:05 GMT
get a panasonic plasma,, or if you can find one a pioneer kuro,,, saturn looks amazing via RGB
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Post by buckoa51 on Jan 12, 2011 0:00:37 GMT
Saturn Looks mediocre on our Panasonic Plasma, plus of course incorrectly deinterlaced, then again I'm spoiled with my current setup Plasma or LCD, you're going to need a videoprocessor (or two) if you want the absolute best for everything from Megadrive/SNES to 360/PS3, there's no two ways about that. I'd have to agree that Plasma is the best, not really because I found it to be that much better with SD content but because the blacks are better and there's no backlight bleed. Having said that I'm enamoured with my KDL-40z4500 despite the backlight bleed, simply because of its amazing 0-10ms display lag. All in all I think it took me about 5 months of research to settle on my current setup, I was going to go for a 3DTV from Philips with Ambilight until I learned it had around 60ms input lag in gamer mode!!
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Post by Antman on Jan 12, 2011 0:45:25 GMT
putting the set on game mode fixed the deinterlacing problem for me
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Xen
Saturn Player
Joined: July 2009
Posts: 120
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Post by Xen on Jan 12, 2011 0:50:20 GMT
Plasma? I was gonna go for an LED screen. Found one with 2.4ms lag, too... which sounds great IMO. LG. Also, guys, is the RGB SCART cable sold by Rob Webb here www.robwebb1.plus.com/saturn/saturnhard.htm any good? The guy has a terrific reputation, but I was told to stay way from these "universal" RGB cables...
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Post by Yart on Jan 12, 2011 1:43:14 GMT
Just a question.
Is it only HDTVs that have input lag? Or has input lag been a long time thing that nobody noticed? And does it only affect old consoles on new TVs?
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Post by superdeadite on Jan 12, 2011 1:52:37 GMT
input lag is mostly from the TV changing analog video into digital video. Laggy TVs have cheap processors that are too slow for games. My old CRT is HD, but no lag
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mick_aka
Kickin' it lively!
"Mick is moderately adequate."
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Post by mick_aka on Jan 12, 2011 8:29:44 GMT
All depends on how good the TV is, my Panasonic plasma has little to no input lag, but my Samsung LCD is terrible for it making it utterly useless for gaming.
It's particularly worse using the composite inputs for things like my NES.
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Post by Kibbles on Jan 12, 2011 12:15:56 GMT
Price has little to do with lag in my experience, some of the really expensive processors are utterly useless for gaming because they do SO MUCH processing...
Samsung TVs seem to have a hard time figuring out how to deinterlace the image:- I notice when watching interlaced footage on several Samsung TV's the framerate keeps chopping and changing from 25 to 50 - it's like they can't decide whether to weave or bob...
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Post by buckoa51 on Jan 12, 2011 13:41:25 GMT
RESPONSE TIME HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH INPUT LAG! Are you sure the LG set in question has a 2.4ms input lag time? That would be pretty impressive. Input lag can be caused by all kinds of things. All HDTV's (except possibly CRT's) have it to some degree. Upscaling, deinterlacing (including the incorrect deinterlacing applied to the Saturn's progressive scan output that all HDTV's do) and postprocessing can all introduce it. With manufacturers wanting their sets to look better in the showroom, its getting more and more of a problem. Dix you're right, some more expensive TV's do that much processing that they add a heap of input lag. In fact one of the cheaper Samsungs on HDTV review was found actually to be the least laggy. Panasonic Plasmas are known for having low input lag too, as Mick points out. There's also only a handful of external videoprocessors that corrctly handle 240p/288p signals (XRGB family, DVDO Edge/VP50 Pro, HD Box pro and the Lumagen Radiance - See retrogaming.hazard-city.de/).
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Xen
Saturn Player
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Posts: 120
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Post by Xen on Jan 12, 2011 16:06:13 GMT
RESPONSE TIME HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH INPUT LAG! Are you sure the LG set in question has a 2.4ms input lag time? That would be pretty impressive. Input lag can be caused by all kinds of things. All HDTV's (except possibly CRT's) have it to some degree. Upscaling, deinterlacing (including the incorrect deinterlacing applied to the Saturn's progressive scan output that all HDTV's do) and postprocessing can all introduce it. With manufacturers wanting their sets to look better in the showroom, its getting more and more of a problem. Dix you're right, some more expensive TV's do that much processing that they add a heap of input lag. In fact one of the cheaper Samsungs on HDTV review was found actually to be the least laggy. Panasonic Plasmas are known for having low input lag too, as Mick points out. There's also only a handful of external videoprocessors that corrctly handle 240p/288p signals (XRGB family, DVDO Edge/VP50 Pro, HD Box pro and the Lumagen Radiance - See retrogaming.hazard-city.de/). As far as I know from the specs, yeah... So, guys, are the cables any good? I really need your help with this one... EDIT: Should I get a TV that doesn't have a 21-pin scart input but has RGB inputs and support? I thought I'd just get some SCART to RGB adapters for that one... the only TV's with SCART RGB I found so far are LCD ones, and I don't want LCD... EDIT 2: Is the Saturn SCART cable 21 pin or 20 pin?? The TV I wanna buy has a 20 pin SCART slot! Same question for the Genesis...
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Post by buckoa51 on Jan 12, 2011 20:32:06 GMT
I believe Robs cables are good, I've had good luck with Adaptorman's cables, find him on E-bay (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sega-Saturn-RGB-SCART-video-cable-lead-Jap-US-version-/150535959527).
All the Saturn SCART leads i've seen use composite video for sync though, which is weird since there is a separate sync signal on NTSC saturns
Where did you see these specs? its very rare for manufacturers to quote input lag times.
What do you mean by "RGB" inputs? Scart is a RGB input. If you're planning to go the whole hog and get a videoprocessor too, you won't need the SCART sockets.
VERY unlikely, I've never heard of a Plasma/LCD/LED HDTV that correctly handles 240/288p signals no matter what mode you set it to, but it may have reduced the input lag down to barable levels and if you're happy that's all that matters.
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Xen
Saturn Player
Joined: July 2009
Posts: 120
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Post by Xen on Jan 12, 2011 20:46:41 GMT
I believe Robs cables are good, I've had good luck with Adaptorman's cables, find him on E-bay (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sega-Saturn-RGB-SCART-video-cable-lead-Jap-US-version-/150535959527). All the Saturn SCART leads i've seen use composite video for sync though, which is weird since there is a separate sync signal on NTSC saturns Where did you see these specs? its very rare for manufacturers to quote input lag times. What do you mean by "RGB" inputs? Scart is a RGB input. If you're planning to go the whole hog and get a videoprocessor too, you won't need the SCART sockets. VERY unlikely, I've never heard of a Plasma/LCD/LED HDTV that correctly handles 240/288p signals no matter what mode you set it to, but it may have reduced the input lag down to barable levels and if you're happy that's all that matters. 1) Yeah, saw 'em. Didn't buy any yet because Adaptorman doesn't ship to my country, and I'd have to route my purchase as Seller-->Friend in US-->Me... not very convenient... he does note that the "Universal cables" such as rob sells are no good, which is why I'm asking this. 2) Seller website and a web search on that TV. However, at the time, it seems that I was confused between response time and input lag... 3) Straight up RGB cables I guess? I didn't really understand, and as I've to really go "the whole hog", I did manage to find a decent LED TV w/scart inputs, and every other useful input as well. www.hdtvreview.com/Sharp-LC32LE600E-hdtv.htmledit: pin 21 on an SCART input... is that even a pin at all? I just checked all SCART outputs and they are all 20 pin... heck, the TV in my family's living room is connected via SCART and both the input and output are 20 pin... wtf is pin 21? Even its job is in no way related to the picture, but it just absorbs electricity or some such... sorry for the whole load of questions, but I'm new to all of this... hence this thread... edit2: Upon further googling, it seems that 21 is the exterior casing on the plug... whoo...
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Post by buckoa51 on Jan 12, 2011 21:51:29 GMT
Still don't understand what this RGB socket thing is, it could be VGA or SCART but there's nothing called a RGB socket.
The Sharp set looks nice, but Google around for input lag times before throwing down the cash. As I said before, if you decide on a videoprocessor then you won't need SCART sockets on the TV (all your equipment will route through the processor, then the processor will go either VGA or HDMI to the TV)....
...Of course, you may be happy with the SCART picture quality on your set without an external processor, I appreciate not everyone is as fussy as me, so if you get a set with a SCART socket you can at least try it before throwing down a significant wad of cash on some kind of videoprocessing solution.
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Post by Antman on Jan 13, 2011 0:23:00 GMT
VERY unlikely? what you talking about? The Kuro i have cost an arm and a leg... It has various interlacing modes to compensate for various scans... plus the game mode. The lag is virtually non existant. Actually on a kuro VGA and component dont use the video processing (commercial stuff so to speak).
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