mick_aka
Kickin' it lively!
"Mick is moderately adequate."
Joined: April 2007
Posts: 9,817
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XBL: mickloaf
PSN: mickloaf
Nintendo ID: segamick
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Post by mick_aka on Oct 4, 2015 16:34:51 GMT
Try playing some of Id's other games - Doom in particular - and then try to tell me you don't see Id's creative imprint all over Saturn Quake. There are plenty of games with "Id's creative imprint all over" that ID had nothing whatsoever to do with at all, that's the legacy of being innovative within a genre. Nothing of what you said deals with your original comment claiming that "Fandom of Lobotomy doesn't come into the picture, as Quake was actually developed by Id save for the Saturn version's secret levels" which is inaccurate. Saturn Quake: Original Design = ID, Development = Lobotomy. I think we'll agree to disagree on this one, it's just a great shame you don't give Lobotomy full credit for what they achieved, which excluding original design elements was essentially a brand new game from scratch.
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NeoGeoNinja
Shadow Warrior
Joined: August 2011
Posts: 6,616
Location:
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Post by NeoGeoNinja on Oct 4, 2015 16:54:31 GMT
PAL Exhumed runs 'fine' at 60hz. Only issue I found was issues with King Rhamses's voice sync bits when he talks to you. They're all off kilter, but other wise, the bottom of the screen is intact and the game runs nicer/quicker
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jpk72
Saturn Player
Joined: September 2015
Posts: 61
Location:
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Post by jpk72 on Oct 4, 2015 17:14:19 GMT
PAL Exhumed runs 'fine' at 60hz. Only issue I found was issues with King Rhamses's voice sync bits when he talks to you. They're all off kilter, but other wise, the bottom of the screen is intact and the game runs nicer/quicker Noticed that with Ramses, thanks by the way. I'll have to keep the Hz difference in mind when playing PAL imports.
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Post by xDerekRx on Oct 4, 2015 22:18:54 GMT
Try playing some of Id's other games - Doom in particular - and then try to tell me you don't see Id's creative imprint all over Saturn Quake. There are plenty of games with "Id's creative imprint all over" that ID had nothing whatsoever to do with at all, that's the legacy of being innovative within a genre. Nothing of what you said deals with your original comment claiming that "Fandom of Lobotomy doesn't come into the picture, as Quake was actually developed by Id save for the Saturn version's secret levels" which is inaccurate. Saturn Quake: Original Design = ID, Development = Lobotomy. I think we'll agree to disagree on this one, it's just a great shame you don't give Lobotomy full credit for what they achieved, which excluding original design elements was essentially a brand new game from scratch. Im not sure what the point of this argument is really. Quake is a game by iD ported to the Saturn by Lobotomy. Its pretty cut and dry to me. Its just like Duke Nukem 3D is 3DRs game ported to the Saturn by Lobotomy. Neither are new games. They are ports. They took original games and attempted to fit every bit of both of them onto Saturn versions using their slave driver engine. Lobotomy gets tons of credit for rebuilding these games from the ground up. Its why they are considered gods to alot of Saturn owners. Its amazing what they pulled off while keeping most of the original games feel intact. Its more akin to a TC or Total conversion which was common in the PC modding community. A remake of a game on another engine.
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Post by xDerekRx on Oct 4, 2015 22:21:00 GMT
Martinii say it aint so Like Ive said Doom is a godlike game for me but the Saturn version is so horrible I cant even rate it properly. I own it and the JPN version mostly for the Doom collection. Its one of the biggest travesties in programming on the Saturn. Even more so than unfinished HOTD. Even Congo runs better As with Quake, I come at the game from a player's perspective, not a programmer's perspective. (I do this with every medium, in fact. Heck, I'm a writer, and I still come at stories from a reader's perspective!) So the programming doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is you've got dozens of cool level designs, nifty enemies, incredibly moody music and lighting, a handy password feature, tons of secrets, and a well-balanced challenge that keeps you on your toes but rarely frustrates you. My point was that Saturn Doom is unplayable. Its broken, it runs terribly. The frame rate in unbearable. Doom as a game has it all, but this version is broken. Damn you Rage Soft.
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Post by Tripredacus on Oct 5, 2015 14:38:23 GMT
One thing I'm curious about... I've read that Quake is supposed to have four difficulty modes: easy, normal, hard, and a hidden "nightmare" mode. I've looked all over the intro section and can only see easy and normal modes. Are the other two modes not included in the Saturn version? You'll have to see. On DOS you choose Episode 4, go into the water and down to the side and land on a wooden path. Then you can find a tunnel to the nightmare slipgate. I haven't done this on Saturn, only PC and it has been a long time ago. I looked up a video showing it. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb2cMAdkkHU
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Post by MIK on Oct 5, 2015 21:09:02 GMT
lol, The guy on PC makes it look like hard work getting to the Nightmare gate, but that's the general idea on Saturn. Drop into the water on the left handside as it's closer to where you want to go and get ready to tap left just as you exit the water that your falling down in so you land on the wooden rail.
There is also a switch on the wall you can hit just before you turn to look at the secret gate, it says something like the Well of Wishes awaits in the Crypt of Decay. I've never worked out what it means or does, it's a level later on in the game but regardless I always hit it every time I start a new game just for good measure.
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Post by zyrobs on Oct 6, 2015 1:03:04 GMT
Try playing the game with the 3d pad. You can set it to use analog for lookspring, and BCYZ for back/forward/strafe. About the same controls as Quake 3 on Dreamcast. Point is, Quake was never designed for the Saturn, Quake was never even designed to run at a resolution lower then 480p (or 640x480 VESA if you want to be anal) No, it was running at 320x200 (or x240, forgot). You could set it to higher resolutions, but that was either in later patches, or with alternate versions that supported whole new rendering modes (OpenGL 3d acceleration, etc). I remember running it at 640x480 or maybe 800x600, in SOFTWARE mode, no opengl magic, but that was years later on 450Mhz Celerons. In low res mode, it just about ran fine on the P90s we had at school. (all these numbers are anecdotal mind you, they might have been P75s for low res and 333Mhz for high res, it's been half a life ago)
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Post by Tatsumaru on Oct 6, 2015 13:58:34 GMT
I've played Quake 1 recently aswell, used to love Quake 2 on the PS1, one of the best 4 players experiences ever created, and I gotta say I'm somewat disapointed with the first game... Obviously it would never live to the second one, since it was much improved, but still, I felt like the game had no soul whatsoever, feels like any other doom clone on the market, and I don't know if you guys felt like this aswell, but I couldn't see shit on that game, everything is so damn dark! Anyway, I might give it a second chance eventually, but by now, I didn't like it very much.
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Post by xDerekRx on Oct 6, 2015 18:20:32 GMT
I've played Quake 1 recently aswell, used to love Quake 2 on the PS1, one of the best 4 players experiences ever created, and I gotta say I'm somewat disapointed with the first game... Obviously it would never live to the second one, since it was much improved, but still, I felt like the game had no soul whatsoever, feels like any other doom clone on the market, and I don't know if you guys felt like this aswell, but I couldn't see shit on that game, everything is so damn dark! Anyway, I might give it a second chance eventually, but by now, I didn't like it very much. Im assuming you just played it for the first time? Seems to be an opinion of someone who just recently picked it up. Quake 2 is good but I never liked it as much as Quake 1. I had Q2 for both PSX and N64. The PSX version is cool because its impressive how the system did the multiplayer and nice graphics. However to me Quake 1 is darker and grittier. Quake 2 was a bit too clean and bright with too many mechanical enemies. Didnt have that same feel. Although once again had you played Quake 2 first and only played Q1 now I can see that opinion being made. Q2 was also what really got me going with PC multiplayer (much more so the Quake 2 engine based game called Kingpin Life of Crime). But yeah I preferred my time with Quake 1 on Saturn to my singleplayer run through of Quake 2 on N64. Still a very nice game and solid console multiplayer modes. Quake 1 is an acquired taste of sorts. Like I said, a different atmosphere almost altogether than Quake 2.
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Post by Tatsumaru on Oct 6, 2015 18:44:16 GMT
Im assuming you just played it for the first time? Seems to be an opinion of someone who just recently picked it up. You are correct. Guess I should have played it back in the day to see how revolutionary it trully was, but sadly (or gladly) I started with Quake 2 on the PSX.
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NeoGeoNinja
Shadow Warrior
Joined: August 2011
Posts: 6,616
Location:
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Post by NeoGeoNinja on Oct 6, 2015 18:59:22 GMT
Im assuming you just played it for the first time? Seems to be an opinion of someone who just recently picked it up. Quake 2 is good but I never liked it as much as Quake 1. I had Q2 for both PSX and N64. The PSX version is cool because its impressive how the system did the multiplayer and nice graphics. However to me Quake 1 is darker and grittier. Quake 2 was a bit too clean and bright with too many mechanical enemies. Didnt have that same feel. Although once again had you played Quake 2 first and only played Q1 now I can see that opinion being made. Q2 was also what really got me going with PC multiplayer (much more so the Quake 2 engine based game called Kingpin Life of Crime). But yeah I preferred my time with Quake 1 on Saturn to my singleplayer run through of Quake 2 on N64. Still a very nice game and solid console multiplayer modes. Quake 1 is an acquired taste of sorts. Like I said, a different atmosphere almost altogether than Quake 2. Quake 2 on PSX destroyed the N64 version too, which... I didn't at all expect. While the fogging had been removed via the RAM expansion, the textures were still really poor and the animation for guns, enemies etc was still dramatically cut down. From memory, isn't the PSX version faithful to the PC version and the N64 is it's 'own version' of Quake 2? I played them back to back once and was surprised at how completely different they were! Also, Quake 1 was better than Quake 2 imo. Quake 1 was a continuation of the glory of Doom, imo, and, although I love Quake 2, it was a bit more generic in it's approach (various enemy soldiers, mechanised enemies, etc)
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Post by xDerekRx on Oct 7, 2015 4:32:32 GMT
Im assuming you just played it for the first time? Seems to be an opinion of someone who just recently picked it up. Quake 2 is good but I never liked it as much as Quake 1. I had Q2 for both PSX and N64. The PSX version is cool because its impressive how the system did the multiplayer and nice graphics. However to me Quake 1 is darker and grittier. Quake 2 was a bit too clean and bright with too many mechanical enemies. Didnt have that same feel. Although once again had you played Quake 2 first and only played Q1 now I can see that opinion being made. Q2 was also what really got me going with PC multiplayer (much more so the Quake 2 engine based game called Kingpin Life of Crime). But yeah I preferred my time with Quake 1 on Saturn to my singleplayer run through of Quake 2 on N64. Still a very nice game and solid console multiplayer modes. Quake 1 is an acquired taste of sorts. Like I said, a different atmosphere almost altogether than Quake 2. Also, Quake 1 was better than Quake 2 imo. Quake 1 was a continuation of the glory of Doom, imo, and, although I love Quake 2, it was a bit more generic in it's approach (various enemy soldiers, mechanised enemies, etc) We have almost the same exact opinion on the feel of the 2 games. Quake 2 felt for some reason a bit more generic. Mechanical enemies, weapon models, levels just didnt have the same atmosphere. Quake 1 oozed atmosphere and grit akin to Doom, although like Ive said Doom to me was so much more than Quake. Thats not to downgrade Quake in any way tho. However again Q2 felt too mechanical to have the same draw as the first game on Saturn. However Q2 on PSX was still very enjoyable... a bit bland on N64. Its interesting though as I felt Quake on Saturn was quite an achievement and enjoyable, I felt the same about Quake 2 on PSX being incredibly impressive at the time.
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Post by MIK on Oct 7, 2015 7:12:18 GMT
Quake continues the evil theme from Doom where as Quake 2 is a completely new game, more a Scifi shooter almost on the lines of Halo but with a Robot army to take down. Quake2's level 1 music is freaking superb though. While I've done and dusted GL Quake, tried running it on Amiga for a laugh and even went to the trouble of getting both Quake and it's mission packs running on Dreamcast, it's the Saturn version I have settled with and always go back too. The sound track obviously helps with that and it's easy to sit back and play with little effort involved, but it's also partly the fact I ended up appreciating it more than the PC original. I had grown fond of Exhumed and just wanted more from the same guys that could do magic like no one else had done on the machine for FPS games. We also had the UK official Sega Saturn mag filling in the gaps of stuff you wanted to know about the guys and games so Duke Nukem was a no brainer for the shopping bag even if secretly we would of rather of had Doom at the time! You can read all this in the Uk saturn mag any way and get a scene of what was going on, cast your minds back to what it might of been like, but then the news broke that Lobo was also doing Quake!!! I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm not playing id games on a Saturn, but instead I'm playing Lobotomy Software games based on what id created. I don't mind the N64 version of Quake 1 either, (turn the default smooth gfx option off first though to make it look more pixelated) because it adds more to the original game as your find more enemies than the PC version and your also find bad guys in different places which can be a surprise or simply catch you out. It's fun for that, and it's on CARTRIDGE!
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Post by Tripredacus on Oct 7, 2015 14:31:10 GMT
I want to note while many love Quake's audio track, on PC you can put any audio CD in you want after the game loads.
Also regarding Quake 2, sure it is different but it had two really good modes: Co-op and multiplayer.
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