PAL games: More expensive than NTSC versions?

[mattfrie1]

Is it only me that thinks this?

Considering that I'm searching Ebay for games to start a small collection of PAL games, I can't seem to come across any for less than $15. The only games that are seem to be Sega originals (Like Virtua Cop and Sega Rally Championship) and American sport games (NBA, NHL). Am I just being cheap, or am I going to have to shell out big bucks for a PAL collection?

[Syntesis]

Why do you want to start a PAL collection?

The reason why prices are higher for PAL are because not many copies were printed. The Saturn was not popular here at all so games released in 1998 especially were fairly scarce. It's not an exaggeration that some stores only got 3~ copies of some games and never restocked. We also have very few retail retro games stores so ebay is the main source and there people can artificially inflate prices (see Mortal Kombat Trilogy). And then you have the problem of people not taking care of their games and viewing them as literally disposable further reducing the pool of available games for sale.

Compare that to Japan that has a thriving second hand retro games market with proper retail presence and people who look after their belongings. It's night and day.

[Kibbles]

Mar 28, 2011 0:03:06 GMT Syntesis said:

Why do you want to start a PAL collection?

The reason why prices are higher for PAL are because not many copies were printed. The Saturn was not popular here at all so games released in 1998 especially were fairly scarce. It's not an exaggeration that some stores only got 3~ copies of some games and never restocked. We also have very few retail retro games stores so ebay is the main source and there people can artificially inflate prices (see Mortal Kombat Trilogy). And then you have the problem of people not taking care of their games and viewing them as literally disposable further reducing the pool of available games for sale.

Compare that to Japan that has a thriving second hand retro games market with proper retail presence and people who look after their belongings. It's night and day.

In Japan pre-owned goods are considered to carry the chaos of the previous owner and bad luck as a result - and selling used games was actually illegal there (technically speaking, it still happened despite being illegal) until the 90s.

I'm not sure it's as 'night and day' as you are making out, as it is a result of the larger mass of games printed. And there are people in Japan who treat games as disposable media also - I know a fellow who throws out the boxes for all of his games to save room in his house.

Shops that sell old games are not that hard to find in the UK... cash converters, etc.

[sonix]

As I mentioned in another thread, the eBay prices for PAL Saturn games went up substantially during the last two years, in some severe cases we can talk about doubled or even tripled prices! Take Night Warrior's Darkstalkers for example, I remember two years ago you could, with little patience, find a copy for about 6 quids (not counting postage), standard price was about 10 I believe. Now sellers apparently think that less than 20 is not enough... and this applies to tons of other games, especially 2D fighters, shmups and RPG's (like they weren't expensive enough already).

[RealBlue]

Trends come & go, right now the PAL collectors market is way into Saturn stuff.

[mick_aka]

Snap up Dreamcast stuff while you can, I can easily see it going the same way soon.

[Syntesis]

Mar 28, 2011 6:55:33 GMT Kibbles said:

Mar 28, 2011 0:03:06 GMT Syntesis said:

Why do you want to start a PAL collection?

The reason why prices are higher for PAL are because not many copies were printed. The Saturn was not popular here at all so games released in 1998 especially were fairly scarce. It's not an exaggeration that some stores only got 3~ copies of some games and never restocked. We also have very few retail retro games stores so ebay is the main source and there people can artificially inflate prices (see Mortal Kombat Trilogy). And then you have the problem of people not taking care of their games and viewing them as literally disposable further reducing the pool of available games for sale.

Compare that to Japan that has a thriving second hand retro games market with proper retail presence and people who look after their belongings. It's night and day.

In Japan pre-owned goods are considered to carry the chaos of the previous owner and bad luck as a result - and selling used games was actually illegal there (technically speaking, it still happened despite being illegal) until the 90s.

I'm not sure it's as 'night and day' as you are making out, as it is a result of the larger mass of games printed. And there are people in Japan who treat games as disposable media also - I know a fellow who throws out the boxes for all of his games to save room in his house.

Shops that sell old games are not that hard to find in the UK... cash converters, etc.

I've been to Japan and I stand by my night and day comment. The "chaos" thing is a superstition not many seem to believe in given how many second hand stores I stumbled across. If anything brand new games were harder to find than used ones and the condition was fantastic, nothing like the minging ones you find in GAME and the like.

[Deleted]

Mar 28, 2011 11:49:04 GMT mick_aka said:

Snap up Dreamcast stuff while you can, I can easily see it going the same way soon.

It certainly is. Bangai-o was, on average, between £10-15 on ebay around Christmas time.

I checked recently and it's going up to around £25-40. This has probably got something to do with the fact that a sequel is coming out on Xbox Live so people are perhaps checking out previous installments.

There's a few others I could mention going the same way.

Anyways, above someone said that PAL Saturn games were made in smaller quantities, yet I was under the opinion that the Saturn market in the US was in an even worse state than the EU's?

Anyway, my theory as to why Saturn games are going up in the EU is a.) it's a good system that people ignored (pretty much all other ignored systems were done so because they didn't have many, if any, quality games) b.) because it's one of the only major game systems not to have had it's library emulated on the Wii, PS3 and Xbox.

Mar 28, 2011 12:51:23 GMT Syntesis said:

I've been to Japan and I stand by my night and day comment. The "chaos" thing is a superstition not many seem to believe in given how many second hand stores I stumbled across. If anything brand new games were harder to find than used ones and the condition was fantastic, nothing like the minging ones you find in GAME and the like.

I've stumbled upon a few videos on youtube of Japanese people showing their anime/ manga/ video game collections (both ones made specifically for youtube, others taken from actual TV shows) and I'm under the impression that a great many number of the Japanese keep their games in ultra good condition?

[superdeadite]

It's not hard keeping something in decent condition. Never understood how people manage to trash their stuff.
Put game in system. Take game out of system. Put on shelf. Not a very difficult process. Used stores are all over Japan, but they are more for the bargain hunter. Your typical Japanese person (especially females) really do not like used/old items though.

[mick_aka]

Mar 28, 2011 14:47:43 GMT superdeadite said:

It's not hard keeping something in decent condition. Never understood how people manage to trash their stuff.

Moving house, things going into storage, floods, fires, damp, kids, no matter how well you try and look after them something always happens eventually.

Was years before i realised that the simple action of gently sliding my NES games on an off the shelf had destroyed the bottoms of the boxes, now I have to line the bottoms with a layer of sticky plasic to prevent this.

Then we have the card cased Saturn games where the only way to keep them in good condition is never actually open them because it destroys the hinge, and even then the glue holding them togeather degrades with age and the disc holder inside looses it's spring.

Theres a lot more to keeping things MINT.

[Stuart36]

i think he means when you go into game and buy fifa 10 and it looks like you could get used frisbys from 1985 in better condition...

[superdeadite]

Mar 28, 2011 15:55:06 GMT Stuart36 said:

i think he means when you go into game and buy fifa 10 and it looks like you could get used frisbys from 1985 in better condition...

Yeah that's what I mean. Wear and tear on cardboard? Normal. A used 360 game that looks worse then my local bar's ashtrays? How does one do that? Especially to something they paid money for?

[Syntesis]

Yep that's another thing, certain formats are easier to keep in good condition than others. On a particularly hot summer I sold a card Saturn game on ebay and when double checking everything was there before packaging it, the card detached itself from the plastic. The glue had lost all its adhesiveness. It's also really easy for the disk to detach itself if you don't put something else in the case to hold it tighter. The design of those cases was really terrible. What were they thinking?

Compare that to Japanese Saturn games which typically have been cared for much better and are much easier to keep in good condition anyway.

So in summary it's a combination of factors.

[Syntesis]

Mar 28, 2011 16:00:51 GMT superdeadite said:

Mar 28, 2011 15:55:06 GMT Stuart36 said:

i think he means when you go into game and buy fifa 10 and it looks like you could get used frisbys from 1985 in better condition...

Yeah that's what I mean. Wear and tear on cardboard? Normal. A used 360 game that looks worse then my local bar's ashtrays? How does one do that? Especially to something they paid money for?

I saw the top of Flower, Sun, Rain poking out of the DS second hand section in town today. I thought I had made a nice little find then I picked it up... flecks of mud all over the case and smudges. I wanted to wash my hands after that.

It's one thing for someone to do that to their copy but for GAME to accept that and put it on their shelves as is speaks volumes. I hate games retail in this country.

[Stuart36]

i find that using dreamcast cases breaks them... just an observation :/

rather annoyingly, it tends to be the games that protect themselves (cartridge based, etc...) that people tend to throw the boxes away for. ever PSP games, people tend to bin the boxes since umd's are protected. i personally couldn't even think of doing this as a child, even when i didn't collect, as umd's look stupid, whereas the box art has pictures and where would i store that leaflet i will never read? (and don't say bin it, or i will karate chop you off your chair!!!)