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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2013 20:52:57 GMT
NES SMB better than Mario64 I can kind of see (albeit if I squint), but Castlevania64 more enjoyable of Mario 64? That's a bit of stretch for me to be honest. Each to their own though. Castlevania-wise I have never enjoyed any game in that series as much as IV on the SNES.
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Post by MIK on Aug 8, 2013 21:20:20 GMT
Most defo each to their own. Turok and Wave Race are my N64 classics.
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Captain Saturn
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Post by Captain Saturn on Aug 8, 2013 21:30:13 GMT
I would say the main reason for not many of them is the public and game journos especially were pretty hacked off with platformers. I can remember many's a comment in magazines mentioning the very fact that a game was a platformer as a negative [towards the end of the Mega Drive's lifespan].
Did you know that Argonaut came up with the idea for Mario 64 before Miyamoto effectively nicked it and thanked them for the idea later? Git. So Croc got slammed a bit for being a Mario 64 rip off/clone when in fact it was really the other way around, Argonaut being the spiritual creators of Mario 64, having pitched the idea before being shown the door not long after by Nintendo Japan.
There was a mind blowing article on Eurogamer mentioning it, well more of an Argonaut history nterview/article hybrid if I remember right [and I probably don't]. I think it was Damian McFerran interviewing one of the people from Argonaut for the 20th anniversary of Starfox. They got shafted. Big time.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2013 22:19:28 GMT
Not trying to be funny here - but if they got shafted then how come Croc is nowhere near as good as M64?
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Captain Saturn
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Post by Captain Saturn on Aug 9, 2013 0:16:54 GMT
Not trying to be funny here - but if they got shafted then how come Croc is nowhere near as good as M64? A fair and good point that I was expecting to be brought up. In short, Argonaut did a lot for Nintendo, but without Nintendo behind them, their ideas were always bound to suffer at least some of the way because of limited resources compared to a giant like Nintendo - especially after being used to having that support for a couple or few years. I'm pretty sure they were also a very small group. This is subjective obviously but for me, I said the above while not actually liking Croc and thinking the same thing at the time of its release...that it looked like a dull, pretty drab and shameless imitation of the vivid, mind blowing world of Mario 64. My jaw dropped when I saw it in motion for the first time on - I think - Bad Influence [remember that?]. I think even Sonic falls way short of ever comparing to Mario too though, and he's probably considered as famous. In a nutshell: 'Star' power? Anticipation? Even if Croc was on the N64 [can't remember if it was], Nintendo have all those Japanese artists and designers that just have everything come to life that much better. I don't know for sure that if it was, that it wouldn't have been a slightly smoother running port or what have you of what they built on the PSX or Saturn. I always thought it looked very colourless. It's the idea, though. I could have a thousand ideas for great games but without the resources or the name recognition...I don't think people are as likely to give a shit about my game [assuming I could even get it off the ground to begin with]. There is no denying that Croc is outclassed in every way by mario 64, but at the same time having read that Eurogamer piece, I'm not so sure we didn't get screwed out of an even better version of Mario 64 [don't laugh, we wouldn't have had Starfox without these lads bypassing Nintendo's copyright, er...stuff]. I'm finding it hard to explain exactly what I mean but the line about them being shafted may have been a bit strong. I'd just love to have seen their version of Mario 64 now. They really were that good! TL;DR: Lack of star power/big name recognition, limited resources and the possibility of significantly less powerful hardware running the game. EDIT: And to think I put "In short" near the start of that post! I'm also tired and rambling.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 0:20:55 GMT
Actually
The version I heard was that Croc was originally supposed to be a game about Yoshi, and it was meant to be a Yoshi Island game or something for the N64...AFAIK it was AFTER Mario 64.
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Captain Saturn
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Post by Captain Saturn on Aug 9, 2013 0:28:24 GMT
Actually The version I heard was that Croc was originally supposed to be a game about Yoshi, and it was meant to be a Yoshi Island game or something for the N64...AFAIK it was AFTER Mario 64. Yeah that was it, sorry. My bloody Chinese whisper memory's at it again! That would explain Croc [they're both green] and it probably is based off of the very engine they used to demo their idea to Nintendo at the time. They do kind of have similar eyes and are both green! I did hear Starfox 64 is more or less a port of Argonaut's unreleased SNES Starfox 2 using Argonaut's code, but they never got royalties for it. That's gotta hurt at least a bit.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 0:31:29 GMT
I don't find this behavior uncharacteristic of Nintendo, Retro Gamer magazine's article on the NES era gave me a pretty clear idea of how ruthless Nintendo were back then...
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Captain Saturn
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Post by Captain Saturn on Aug 9, 2013 0:37:47 GMT
You can read that Starfox 64 thing in the same Argonaut/Eurogamer article, but I can't get a link right now. I'm sure Google knows. Sounds like you might have read it already actually. I wonder if Yoshi is hidden somewhere in Croc's code/files or what-have-you...
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martiniii
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Post by martiniii on Aug 9, 2013 13:28:52 GMT
To be completely honest I think the same. But on the other hand I can say the same thing about PS and N64. Or to bring in another of the Saturn's competitors, the 3DO. It has: Gex Soccer Kid That's not a list of the great ones. That's a complete list. Note also that neither game is exclusive to 3DO. There's also the Jaguar, which got: Bubsy in Fractured Furry Tales Zool 2 Rayman Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure Soccer Kid But to look at the more positive end of things, I think the Saturn did more than fine on the platformer front. When it comes to masterpieces, Pandemonium! and Mr. Bones are more than enough as far as I'm concerned, and depending on your tastes, some would say Rayman, Clockwork Knight 2, and Astal are in that category, either instead or in addition. We've got nothing to complain about.
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NeoGeoNinja
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Post by NeoGeoNinja on Aug 9, 2013 14:12:14 GMT
Don't get me wrong here. May be it is indeed a masterpiece... but not for my taste. I actually had more fun with Castlevania 64 . But again - it wasn't as good as 1-2-3 Castlevanias on nes. And I doubt that Mario 64 is better than nes Marios either. May be I'm wrong, may be not, but that's how I see it davyk... I think it's worded oddly, but by my gaming preferences, I agree with a lot of this. I personally would take any of the N64 Castlevania's > Mario 64 as I NEVER actually liked Mario 64. I think, I just really didn't enjoy that transition to 3D. It really didn't work... 'for me'. As for suggesting the original SMB is superior to M64 is completely subjective. For me? Of course, I'll take any of the NES Mario's > 64 but then again, I only ever actually liked the NES Mario's. I haven't fully enjoyed a Mario game since that era. Not even the highly acclaimed SMW on SNES. I still preferred the NES originals. I FEEL SIMILARLY... and almost identically about Sonic too. It's all about the 16-bit versions for me. Anything thereafter really didn't cut it for me (i.e. Adventure on DC onwards). BACK ON TOPIC THOUGH... At the end of the day, if you are really into your platformers and want plenty to tie you over, you really are best off buying a SNES or/and Megadrive for that stuff. The Saturn has the odd interesting bit here and there but nothing really to satisfy the needs of an individual who's got a penchant for platformers, which is something I don't have
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Post by falconofthesun on Sept 4, 2013 15:09:50 GMT
Although Sonic Jam was mainly a compilation, I really loved it as I never owned a Mega Drive (albeit I had played quite a bit of them at friend's). They were careful enough to ensure Sonic & Knuckles could be combined to all the three games, plus there were other nice options I can't quite remember. I gotta say that playing Sonic 3 + S&K was one hell of a game especially if you wantd to get Chaos Emeralds and Super Chaos Emeralds (to become Hyper Sonic or Hyper Knuckles). Shame that the 3D bit never got developed as a complete game, the engine was absolutely nice... I remember disliking Rayman, it was so slow it looked still...
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martiniii
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Post by martiniii on Sept 5, 2013 0:31:40 GMT
I keep hoping to find a reasonably priced copy of Sonic Jam, as I've never owned a Mega Drive either. I'm a sucker for a good compilation.
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NeoGeoNinja
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Post by NeoGeoNinja on Sept 5, 2013 8:37:36 GMT
I keep hoping to find a reasonably priced copy of Sonic Jam, as I've never owned a Mega Drive either. I'm a sucker for a good compilation. For the money it 'might' (unsure of US prices for Jam) cost you to get the compilation, it might well be cheaper to just buy a loose MD and the 3 games! S&K might be pricey though
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Post by falconofthesun on Sept 5, 2013 15:27:06 GMT
Hope you can get a copy Martinii, the game was really good, loads of Sonic bonanza in the 3D part (you can access all these TV ads, videos, stils and all) and of course the old platformers which are absolutely superb (plus the fact that you can pretty much save at any point and start from where you left the following day). And, honestly, 2P battles on the special stage of Sonic 2 (the half pipe where you had to get enough rings for the Chaos Emerald) are some of the best 2P straightforward fun I had on a game ever.
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