sonix
Sega Saturn FTW!
Joined: March 2008
Posts: 938
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Post by sonix on Nov 8, 2018 22:36:02 GMT
So recently I dug out my Sat after 5 years of (yet another) break, purchased a bunch of games, already made a list of every game I find remotely interesting along with average price for future reference. If you want to seriously get into Saturn, in the year of 2018, while starting pretty much from scratch, you realize that it'll take some hefty investment, even if you exclude the outrageously priced games like PDS or half of the shoot'em ups, and it can only get more expensive. So, looking at the prices of Saturn games, stuff that's already at least two decades old, I started to wonder how reasonable it is to actually buy this stuff - how long could it last from now on?
In precisely 2 weeks it'll be the 24th anniversary of Saturn's Japanese launch. This pretty much means that almost all of Saturn hardware is at least 20 years old. On one hand the Saturn is widely regarded as one of the most durable systems ever made - especially among consoles with optical drives. In my experience it's definitely been true, aside from a small incident with a blown fuse (luckily it could be easily replaced) - absolutely no issues over the years, although I'm aware that a faulty Saturn unit is not a rare sight. Then again, I had long breaks with the system, I think that over the 19 years I owned it I used it for around 8 years, and the rest was spent in confinement. Still, it feels like the hardware design makes the Saturn very reliable - as long as you keep it in good condition it shouldn't die on you just like that.
But even the most durable hardware will give in sooner or later, not only due to wear and tear but also time. Obviously we still have Atari's and NES's that work like a charm, not to mention numerous other computer hardware that's older and still running, although the simplicity of those machines also makes them more sturdy than anything more modern. As far as I know, there hasn't been any "mass exctinction" of any particular video game system yet (though apparently the Famicom Disk System was notoriously failure-prone from the very start), but it's just a matter of time. For some systems it's not a big deal - Famicom is constantly reborn through various clones, and can be emulated flawlessly on pretty much everything. Famicom hardware dying out is not a big deal, because the games are all preserved and easily playable on modern machines - same goes for most systems we consider "retro".
As we know, it's not necessarily true in case of Saturn. We will never see any Saturn clones in the future (well, that's true for pretty much any disk-based system). The emulation is there, but SSF, while doing a great job, was never completed and probably won't be (I don't know if it's been officialy abandoned, or is there any chance for an update in the future), and in my personal experience it does not replace the original hardware in the same way any NES, SNES or Mega Drive emulators can. There are some other projects but I doubt we will see any new Saturn emulator that matches SSF performance anytime soon, let alone surpass it, not to mention that at some point SSF itself may become incompatible with some new Windows revisions. Some (very few) Saturn classics have been ported here and there, but plethora of games exclusive to it will never find a second home. Basically - Saturn itself is still necessary to own if you want the definitive experience, and there's no guarantee this will change in the next, say, 5-10 or even 20 years.
(This post is way longer than I planned)
So how long can Sega Saturn last? Do you think that some units will still work like new 20 years from now? Would that be most units or only some lucky ones? How would other systems compare (PSX, Mega CD, Dreamcast...)? There's also this case of disc rot, which may or may not affect CD's and DVD's, but from what I've read, CD's can last up to 100 years (at least in theory), so most likely the storage should outlive the hardware in most cases. Which hardware components are most prone to failure? Is there a general estimation for how long the laser/CD drive can last (I've heard figures like up to 60,000 hours of actual work)? It may be silly to get so worked up about whether or not I will be able to play Daytona USA on original hardware (or at least perfectly emulated) in 2038 but nevertheless it's a topic that becomes more and more important with each passing year.
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sonix
Sega Saturn FTW!
Joined: March 2008
Posts: 938
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Post by sonix on Nov 7, 2018 22:29:21 GMT
Sega Ages Vol. 1 arrived so naturally I played Outrun and Afterburner II (which I begin to like, years ago I thought this game was impossible). Managed to find a PAL copy for a reasonable price (around 20$), although it's missing the manual (which is available online so no big deal). Until AR cart and imports arrive it's the only Saturn game I've got for now.
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sonix
Sega Saturn FTW!
Joined: March 2008
Posts: 938
Location:
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Post by sonix on Nov 1, 2018 20:29:21 GMT
It may be considered arbitrary, but the compilation itself is exclusive and that's what counts in my book - no single release in Japan matches Sega Ages Vol. 1 (might deserve a footnote though). But it got me thinking about, for example, Daytona USA CCE Netlink Edition and whether or not it should count as an US exclusive. Stuff like that can be ironed out later though, I should finish the list first
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sonix
Sega Saturn FTW!
Joined: March 2008
Posts: 938
Location:
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Post by sonix on Nov 1, 2018 16:58:58 GMT
Hi guys, just wanted to say that I'll try to complete the list sometime in the future. For now I just made a small update related to what zyrobs pointed out about Digital Pinball. Also, Doukoku Soshite was recently re-released for PS4 and Vita.
Regarding Panzer Dragoon - it was already marked as re-released, both as a standalone game for PS2 and as an unlockable in PDO).
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sonix
Sega Saturn FTW!
Joined: March 2008
Posts: 938
Location:
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Post by sonix on Nov 1, 2018 16:48:38 GMT
After a long break I'm starting from scratch again. Here's a list of games I snatched on eBay recently for a start:
Daytona USA Virtua Fighter 2 Sega Rally Decathlete Tomb Raider Densha de Go! EX Doukoku Soshite Super Robot Taisen F Super Robot Taisen F Final Victory Goal Worldwide Edition World Cup 98' France ~Road to Win~ Nihon Daihyou Chiimu no Kantoku ni Narou
All Japanese imports, around 60$ for the whole bunch of 12 games (but twice as much when including shipping costs). That plus the Action Replay cart from Play Asia (lowest price I've found) - I like how it's been so many years and this thing is still available everywhere, new, and still for pretty much the same price.
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sonix
Sega Saturn FTW!
Joined: March 2008
Posts: 938
Location:
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Post by sonix on Oct 31, 2018 20:08:30 GMT
(not a newbie but pls don't delete ) 10 years ago I took my good old Saturn out of the closet and started a new journey that went well beyond the mere 6 (albeit all great) games I owned years before. At the same time I found this place and joined the community full of great and passionate people, which help me discover a lot of new stuff about the system and its games, making the whole experience much more enjoyable. Years have passed but I never actually participated on any other Internet message boards on the same level as here. I mean almost 1,000 posts and various contributions in form of reviews, price guides or manual translations - that never (again) happened. This forum definitely helped me improve my English writing skills back then, thanks to almost daily posting. There were also those that helped me in a big way - I remember that literally on the day of registering someone offered me to send a free copy of Panzer Dragoon just because I mentioned it was one of the 6 games I used to own as a kid. Or a friendly user from Japan who helped me with purchasing imports from the Suruga-ya store, which saved me a lot of money. But after 5 years I guess I had some sort of Saturn fatigue, and at the same time felt that I should finally join the contemporary gaming scene again - so I decided to sell all my Saturn games to fund the purchase of PS3. Only games, cause obviously I saved the hardware in case someday I might return to 32-bit path (and even if not, I would never sell it anyway). Though I actually thought it might have been a point of no return, since I saw first-hard how the "retro game inflation" hit Saturn titles, especially the non-japanese releases (which is what eventually forced me to get into imports). And it's been 5 years since then. So when I thought recently that I might go back to Saturn gaming, I was actually afraid to look it up. There was also some anxiety when I dug out my Sat to check if it still works - last time I did that after a long break it resulted in a blown fuse which had to be replaced. No worries though, the almost 25 years old machine is still going strong, I love it Now I see that the EU/US releases have certainly became almost prohibitevly expensive - even basic stuff like Daytona USA, a 1 quid game, is sold (and bought) for ten times that. Fortunately the imports are still affordable - some definitely have higher value now, especially the ones that already had insane prices. Thus, I went on a slight binge today and spend almost a 100 quid on the Action Replay cart and 12 games from eBay - and now we play the waiting game... So after this wordy introduction I just wanted to say hello. I see that the traffic on forums is not what it used to be but I'm glad the community is still alive. When I came back to visit, I kind of anticipated to find out the page might be gone or abandonded. It's good to see some people from the "old" crew still hang around too. Reading through the boards and my post history I remembered there's some unfinished business - I did not complete my "List of japanese exclusives" back then, I guess I might as well try to finish it this time, even if it may be of hardly any use. There was also this plan to translate the japanese manuals and have them available to anyone - well, I still study Japanese (I actually managed to pass the N2 JLPT exam this year, although barely) so I'm definitely going to try this out again since it's a good way to learn and give something back to the community (and if anyone has some translation request, not necessarily Saturn or video games related, you can alway PM me and I will try to help - gotta put this "ad" in my sig). Slightly bummed though that the two manuals I completed years ago are gone now (both from my Google Drive and PC), but I might bring them back some day. Oh, and I also fixed the link in my singature - so now you can conveniently download all of Sega Saturn Magazine issues again (though who didn't at this point? ). Thanks for reading Now go play some Saturn games before Segata beats you up for wasting your time!
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sonix
Sega Saturn FTW!
Joined: March 2008
Posts: 938
Location:
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Post by sonix on May 7, 2013 9:53:47 GMT
Got two packages from Terramax, great condtion and good prices.
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sonix
Sega Saturn FTW!
Joined: March 2008
Posts: 938
Location:
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Post by sonix on Apr 27, 2013 11:45:47 GMT
A little update, right now I'm through 300 Japanese releases, so it's about 25% complete.
A little curio: I didn't expect to find out there's an "educational" game called Father Christmas, that was released only for Saturn and, originally, for... C64.
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sonix
Sega Saturn FTW!
Joined: March 2008
Posts: 938
Location:
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Post by sonix on Apr 16, 2013 17:09:32 GMT
Managed to beat Jaggernaut, and Magneto afterwards. Got some ideas from youtube how to beat the first one, Magneto was bit easier to figure out on my own (the tornado claw+wall combo proved very effective).
Before that I tried to play with Cyclops and Psylocke for a change, instead of Wolverine, but found it pretty hard to play effectively, I couldn't get past the 2/3rd stage against... Wolverine xd Then I switched to him and advanced to the bosses without using continues. In general it feels like he's a character aimed for beginners.
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sonix
Sega Saturn FTW!
Joined: March 2008
Posts: 938
Location:
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Post by sonix on Apr 15, 2013 18:58:52 GMT
Time to revive an old thread!
I have a question. I never played the original/remixed version of the first VF, years ago when I was introduced to the series I started with the 2nd one straightaway. So is there any actual reason to play the first one? Is there something to find in the original that was somehow missing in VF2 or did the sequel improve literally everything there was? It would be a cheap addition to my collection anyway but I'd still like to know if there's any point of getting it.
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sonix
Sega Saturn FTW!
Joined: March 2008
Posts: 938
Location:
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Post by sonix on Apr 14, 2013 17:06:57 GMT
Somehow we didn't have a thread about this particular game.
I've bought mine last summer although only played a few times since then. Fired it up today and... holy shit is it hard! For now I play on the lowest possible level, and lowest speed, with auto-guard, and the farthest I've got (after few continues) was the Jaggernaut who basically annihilates me (I played as Wolverine by the way). Without continues I usually end my arcade mode ventures on the 3rd opponent. On default settings I pretty much have no idea what's going on, aside from the fact that I'm being ravished.
I definitely like it better than Vampire Hunter, which I owned some time ago, but this is much a more challenging game.
I'm still not sure if it's my d-pad or I'm doing something wrong, but quite often I have problems pulling of some attacks (quarters etc.), especially when I need to do them fast. I also don't quite understand how throws work, I mean I know how to do them but most of the time I can't pull them off, and when I do, I don't know why it worked in this particular case. The CPU though, he seems to throw me, or counter my throws, with almost 100% efficiency.
I never was good at 2D fighters in particular anyway... but I still want to enjoy them.
Also, is there a "top records" table for survival mode? After getting my ass kicked it only shows the regular table (with points). Also, they could've made the team battle mode playable against CPU too, like VF2 did.
Thoughts? Experiences?
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sonix
Sega Saturn FTW!
Joined: March 2008
Posts: 938
Location:
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Post by sonix on Apr 12, 2013 19:18:07 GMT
Gamefaqs has every single game listed so it's nothing hard Sometimes I just have to google for more clarification.
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sonix
Sega Saturn FTW!
Joined: March 2008
Posts: 938
Location:
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Post by sonix on Apr 12, 2013 16:11:06 GMT
List updated with several Japanese games. This makes 2 out of 26 pages of Jap games on Satakore covered.
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sonix
Sega Saturn FTW!
Joined: March 2008
Posts: 938
Location:
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Post by sonix on Apr 12, 2013 13:45:50 GMT
Lets say if you were to introduce a teenage Bioshock/CoD type gamer to the system where would you start off? Nowhere, because he'd probably dismiss everything I suppose. Unless he's open minded, since that's where it all comes down to really. Anyway, gameplay wise these games will always remain great for me: Sega Rally - perfect, satisfying and easy to grasp driving model, pretty much unsurpassed. (Possible insult: "4 tracks and 3 cars? My NFS has 100 times more than that!") Tomb Raider - Many people say it's unplayable today, but I've got no idea what they're talking about. Gives a better sense of adventure than half of that crap today. There's no other game I've beat more times than this. (Possible insult: "What do I doooo?! Where do I goooo?!") Virtua Fighter 2 - Still looks great, not as complex as the next installment (though still hard as balls against the cpu), so also more approachable. Great music. (Possible insult: "Lol@moonjumps") Dead or Alive - Same as above, pretty much. In a way it feels more impressive than VF2. (Possible insult: none, the bouncing boobs should divert their attention) Panzer Dragoon - Zwei may be superior technically, but the first one was much more memorable, especially when it comes to stage design and the glorious soundtrack. (Possible insult: "2hard/I'm supposed to play this with a d-pad?") Pretty much most of 2D fighters and shmups there are for Saturn, too many to list. (Possible insult: "I can count the pixels - 1, 2, 3... yup, that's all of them, huehuehe") I'd need to play more games to add to that, especially some obscure Japan-only RPGs.
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sonix
Sega Saturn FTW!
Joined: March 2008
Posts: 938
Location:
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Post by sonix on Apr 11, 2013 8:48:22 GMT
Does it also happen when you try to skip it with the start button?
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