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Post by atolm on Jun 17, 2016 0:30:44 GMT
What Martiniii is saying is, if you believe morality is subjective, then you can't condemn the Orlando shooter. If you think it's wrong, but someone else thinks it's right, then you have no better reason than they do to believe the way you do. Because morality, to you, is entirely in the eye of the beholder. Morality is subjective. It's in the definition, a set values or beliefs belonging to an individual or society. There is NO version of morality that everyone agrees on. His comparison to gravity was ridiculous. If I step off the roof off a 3rd story building I am going to plummet to the ground at a specific rate of acceleration until I go splat. This outcome can be accurately predicted using equations, and regardless of what culture sees me do it or feels about the act, the outcome is going to be the same. According to my morals, I do not condone the slaughter that took place in Orlando. If still alive the shooter should be punished. I believe this because it's part of my morals. This doesn't mean I don't believe the shooter had his own set of morals, I just don't give a damn what they were. You saying I can't judge if I believe morality is subjective is in fact a MORAL belief on your part. It's just like if I thought you had a horrible taste in music. Good music is up to the listener, I'm still going to think you have a horrible taste in music.
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Post by atolm on Jun 16, 2016 23:36:48 GMT
Furthermore, you claim the morals of fictional cultures in PDS must be based on the morals of the culture the authors came from? "not to mention the most basic facts of 20th century Japanese history and culture". That's incredibly narrow minded, man. It's a work of FICTION. So you're basically saying an author is incapable of thinking outside their own moral perspective to write a work that breathes unique life into a fictional world and empathize with what their characters' beliefs might be. To read a Japanese narrative and say "well I must judge this on Japanese culture/morals cause that must be what the author intended" is truly prejudicial on your part. The human imagination is greater than that.
An atheist can write a story about figures in Christianity in such a way that isn't presenting judgement there is no god. To say "well, he must be lecturing on the futility of believing in a false God cause he's an atheist" is incredibly ignorant. Isn't it entirely possible the figures in Christianity make for great reading?
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Post by atolm on Jun 16, 2016 18:45:15 GMT
Dude, you're a rambling nutter who bought a game.com
I didn't say anything about Orlando. Your original statement of "I aced philosphy" sure as shit didn't prove your credibility to anyone. You made some asinine statement equating morality to gravity. Morality to exist requires neurons to be firing in human brains. It isn't a thing that's existed for all time that we discovered, we INVENTED it. Here's the actual definition if you want to keep running your mouth. "a particular system of values and principles of conduct, especially one held by a specified person or society."
Maybe this seems overly harsh, but you did just insinuate I approved of the slaughter of 50 of my fellow countrymen, a conclusion you reached based on the discussion of morals warring societies in a work of fiction might have. Where you pulled this from, all I can say is you're probably not a licensed proctologist.
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Post by atolm on Jun 15, 2016 1:11:56 GMT
Yo, this thread was about PDS, remember?
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Post by atolm on Jun 12, 2016 21:22:14 GMT
I'm not sure if PDS story line is unique as people are making out. After all, Golden Sun has much the same theme of good intentions/bad intentions. I wouldn't say Craymen was a bad guy. Certainly in relative terms, but "this is war" seems to be used as an excuse to justify his actions. First of all, not a good example. Golden sun was released some years later so you can't cite PDS as not so original by referencing a later work But no, on it's individual components it isn't completely original and definitely draws inspiration from other works. But gameplay, music, world all combine to make something truly different at the time of its release. There's a reason it and The Last of Us are my favorite games.
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Post by atolm on Jun 12, 2016 18:31:18 GMT
nobody can say what good or wrong morality is. it's not a fact. never is and never will be. Okay, now you're getting just silly. You're talking about moral ambiguity when you don't even believe in morality, period? Where did you "ace" philosophy? an online course at Devry? How do you not grasp what bultje112 is saying? I believe art and literature exist, that doesn't mean what constitutes "good" versions of them is concrete for all time. What is good art? That's an ambiguous question. Is it morally wrong to eat meat? That depends on who you ask, doesn't mean those who answer differently don't believe in morality. Morality to exist as a concept requires a constant go between about what is right vs wrong. That IS morality. Gravity has no such requirements, it's existence just is.
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Post by atolm on Jun 12, 2016 15:50:00 GMT
that's what you and, after thousands of years, western civilization finds morally wrong in general. do you have any suggestion the panzer dragoon world is in any way like our world is now? Our understanding of morality has changed over time, but morality itself never changes. Just because modern laws of gravity weren't discovered until the past few centuries doesn't mean that gravity worked differently back in 500 A.D. uhh, what? "Morality" is a human construct, just like Music, so of course it changes with the times. It isn't a law of the universe. It solely exists in the minds of humans. Your comparison to gravity is ridiculous. The effects of gravity do not rely on the continuing existence of our species. When we meet our end, the concept of morality will cease to exist. Gravity and the expansion of the universe will continue on. The dragon posed a very real threat to the empire. If nuking Zoah meant the Dragon rider would cease slaughtering their forces, it doesn't seem like such a drastic decision
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Post by atolm on Jun 12, 2016 14:05:53 GMT
You're implying Zoah was a town of the Empire, it wasn't so your analogy doesn't work. This was a foreign occupation. How is it any less morally ambiguous than Craymen nuking the capital, and you later choose to assist him? Had Craymen survived, would he have stopped at the tower? The only reason Edge went to the military base was because of Vaiman, so it WAS destroyed by Zoah. It was an act of war. Zoah was given the option to surrender, Vaiman chose another option. Whether or not the Empire truly knew Edge was acting on the behalf of a town politician is never really revealed. But it is clear through enemy dialog in the game they blame Edge's appearance at the air base as an act by Zoah. They are correct. Afterall Vaiman was making public "premonitions" about the appearance of the Dragon to gain leadership. Pretty conceivable the empire got wind of him opening his mouth.
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Post by atolm on Jun 11, 2016 1:44:20 GMT
I'm not using "good vs evil" and "right vs wrong" interchangeably. I didn't say there was no right vs wrong, I said it was open to interpretation. There is no traditional good vs evil in this story, this isn't Zelda or countless other games where a seemingly peaceful utopia is suddenly threatened by a demon set on ruining everyone's day. I think this is partly why PDS is such a unique experience.
Was it right for Craymen to nuke the capital and slaughter the excavation team? As he later tells Edge, "this is war". Would it really have been a terrible thing if the Empire had taken over Zoah? A town that was waging class oppression through religious dogma (just eavesdrop on the many conversations in town). It's conceivable the empire would have done away with the Holy District ensuring more even commerce. Was it really "wrong" of the Empire to destroy Zoah? It could be argued it was an appropriate response. Edge helped Vaiman by firing the first shots in the conflict. You as the player completely obliterate a military installation presumably filled with men proudly serving their nation with families at home. Even the Seekers aren't the completely noble organization they claim to be, they later imprison Orta for the crime of her birth. No one has a 100% moral high ground in this game.
That's why the Caravan is so brilliant in it's inclusion. You can see the effects the events have on a group of people who otherwise have no agenda other than to eke out a living and survive.
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Post by atolm on Jun 4, 2016 21:08:21 GMT
I'm also interested. being in europe we have different rgb from japan right? how do I convert this? is there an jap rgb to pal rgb converter? will this look worse? If you're handy with a solder iron, you can actually open up the JP21 adapter that comes stock with the framemeister and swap the wires around to euro scart pinout.
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Post by atolm on Jun 4, 2016 2:52:17 GMT
The framemeister comes with a universal power supply, at least mine did when I bought it beginning of 2015. C-Sync is preferable, but the framemeister will accept composite video as sync in a pinch. There's a sync level option in the menu to dial up if there's any sync issues. I haven't needed the sync-cleaner cable yet I bought. Make sure your saturn supports C-Sync. I know the USA ones do, can't speak for other regions. How do you like your framemeister so far? I've been thinking about getting one for a while now. Besides when it blanks out for a few seconds when some 32bit era games switch between 240P/480i, no complaints. The ability to save profiles for different systems and custom zoom/crop options is very useful.
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Post by atolm on Jun 4, 2016 0:46:22 GMT
The framemeister comes with a universal power supply, at least mine did when I bought it beginning of 2015. C-Sync is preferable, but the framemeister will accept composite video as sync in a pinch. There's a sync level option in the menu to dial up if there's any sync issues. I haven't needed the sync-cleaner cable yet I bought. Make sure your saturn supports C-Sync. I know the USA ones do, can't speak for other regions.
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Post by atolm on Jun 2, 2016 13:50:20 GMT
what 100% proof do you have the ancients where human? I also believe that, but people like the seekers do believe they were gods. lol, have you actually played through the game? out of all the mysteries in the game, who the ancients were isn't one of them. There's some dialogue between Azel and Edge while they are cruising around the genetics lab underneath Uru where Azel tells him verbatim that the monsters were created by humans. The ancients were an advanced human civilization who met their demise, they weren't space aliens or some other weird convoluted plot idea. The narrator even tells you within the opening minutes of the first cutscene. "Thousands of years have passed since the fall of the utopian civilization. The survivors live in fear of the biological weapons created by ancient technologies" The panzer universe is basically Mad Max, but with dragons instead of rusting Holdens and other detroit iron. There isn't any Assassin's Creed celestial beings nonsense going on.
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Post by atolm on Jun 1, 2016 22:12:10 GMT
You guys are reading way too much into the divine vistor thing. It was simply the producers' attempt to try and absorb the player into the story. I don't see the press a button thing at the end as all "neverending story", and overall I don't feel the divine visitor aspect has any real bearing on the story. It wasn't a big secret reveal, after all right at the beginning you are presented with "the one who controls Edge, what is your name" you then see the orb descend and revive him. Edge isn't exactly a silent protaganist, and his emotions at the death of his captain and revenge are his alone, not the player's. That pissed off sneer he gave Zastava took place before the player gets involved.
I also don't see any real good vs evil struggle in the game either. It's simply humans dealing with a way to survive in a harsh world, by their own methods the empire just happens to seem more dickish. Right vs wrong is up to interpretation. There's a great scene where Gash says to Edge something along the lines of "at least I'm not out to murder anyone".
The ancients were humans, this isn't some big secret who they were. As far as the origin of the heresy program, I honestly don't remember if it was mentioned in the story but the easiest explanation is it was introduced as sabotage by some ancients who didn't like the way things were going. The same way Craymen broke away from the empire.
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Post by atolm on May 4, 2016 6:32:44 GMT
I would have gladly sacrificed Garegga's release for a port of Armored Police Batrider. Way more fun, and you can actually see enemy fire without squinting.
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